Sunday, February 1, 2009

Growing up

At the beginning of the Odyssey, Telemachus seems young and powerless. As he embarks on a journey and the epic wears on, how and why does the character of Telemachus change?
Posted by at

31 comments:

  1. Molly LiebeskindFebruary 9, 2009 at 8:14 AM

    In the beginning of the epic Telemachus appears to have a very young character because he lives life with no responsibilities or worries. After his father leaves without return Telemachus gives up on life and lets others control him. Therefore he is giving up all of the power and control he formerly had over his life. As the story mentions Telemachus lived in his own house but under the control of other people. However, once Athena gives him a reason to take control, Telemachus becomes stronger and more enthusiastic about his life and reason to live.

    ReplyDelete
  2. tommy v willenFebruary 9, 2009 at 8:26 AM

    Telemachus is somewhat immature and is more like a child than adult in the beginning. He allows all the suitors and partygoers into his house and stay there. Once Athena comes to visit him, he matures. She tells him that Odysseus is alive and will come home and he needs to get rid of the suitors and look for his father, Odysseus. Their discussion matured him and he kicked out the suitors. This represented him going from a boy to a man82. He now is more responsible and can live his life more like an adult and can control things around him.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Zach VoigtFebruary 10, 2009 at 6:51 AM

    Telemachus actually starts out as being fairly mature. He knows when he should be angry with the suitors for invading his house instead of being enamored with all of the new things and new people. Athena only sends him on the journey he wanted to go on anyway.He also keeps a level head when Menelaus only wants to party; he remembers why he came and the next morning he is able to talk seriously with his host.

    I don't think that Athena had any great affect on the beginning of Telemachus' journey, since he was ready to leave anyway. The only thing that she did was give his quest Divine Approval (If anyone asked, he could say that Athena sent him). She merely confirmed that Odysseus was alive and that Telemachus could find him, restoring hope. Her interference had very little to do with his maturity level.

    Telemachus isn’t really powerless either. His father’s war friends immediately recognize him as Odysseus’ son, which indicates that he is at least somewhat powerful looking and strong, bearing resemblance to a great warrior. Since he is the son of Odysseus, he could even have the clever nature of his father, as well as being strong. Even in the beginning of the book, during his conversation with Antinious, Telemachus is recognized as the rightful king of Ithaca. This alone should identify him in the early days as a force to be reckoned with.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Kirsty CFebruary 10, 2009 at 6:54 AM

    Personally, I disagree with the statement "In the beginning of the epic Telemachus appears to live with no worries." I do not think that Telemachus "lives with no worries" because in Book One (within the first paragraph that Telemachus is indroduced) he is automatically described as Odysseus' son, "heart obsessed with grief".
    Although, I do agree that Telemachus appears powerless, I think there may be a bigger reasoning as to why; other than he is young. It may just be that he is scared to take control, almost intimidated by the status his father has left behind, "he could almost see his magnificent father here." Telemachus does not deny responsibility, he is happy to set sail and search for his father, and even earlier on in Book One, he notices that the suitors are causing chaos but dealing with them seems to be a whole new problem. Telemachus seeks his lost fathers' approval which can lead him to taking a step back and appearing young and foolish, he awaits his fathers return to take over responsibility to "drive these suitors away".

    ReplyDelete
  5. SunjeevFebruary 10, 2009 at 1:51 PM

    It is true that in the beginning of the book Telemachus is portrayed as young and weak. One of the very first actions we see him doing in the book is crying from grief of the suitors and his lost father. And if anything, his life was filled worries. His mother was in danger of being remarried, meaning kingship was at stake and Telemachus (maybe) believed his father to be dead.
    However, all that soon changes with the arrival of Athena. Telemachus seems to transform into what his father, was: strong, heroic, and assertive. As stated on page 89 in the Odyssey, “But the suitors broke into uproar through the shadowed halls,/all of them lifting prayers to lie beside her, share her bed,/until discreet Telemachus took command…” Telemachus soon tells the suitors to, basically, shut their mouths. Clearly he is being more assertive.

    The parallels to Odysseus keep on weaving through the book as we read into book 4 and 5. Telemachus cunningly (like the man of twists and turns) steals away on a boat to search of the name of his father. And he meets the red-haired King Menelaus. The King later says to Telemachus after Telemachus denies a precious gift, “The lord of the warcry smiled, patted him with his hand and praised his guest, concluding ‘Good blood runs in you, dear boy, your words are proof’” (143). Menelaus senses the blood of Odysseus flowing through the veins of Telemachus. This shows how Telemachus is becoming more like his dad as the Odyssey continues and no doubt we’ll be seeing more of that.

    ReplyDelete
  6. ♥Aziza♥February 10, 2009 at 4:13 PM

    Telemachus definitely experiences a somewhat major transformation from being a child in the very beginning of the story. After Odysseus leaves him, he realizes its time to be a man. One of the times when such a realization comes to him in Book I is a class example, when he speaks to his mother, saying, "So mother, go back to your quarters. Tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders, men will see to that, but I most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house". In this quote its clearly evident that Telemachus grows up because he no longer lets himself fall under his mom’s ruling and reverses the order, now bossing his own mother around; which makes him more independent. And people achieve more and more independence as they grow older, depending only on themselves. Another passage that proves his maturity over time is also in Book I when he spoke to Antinous, “Antinous, even though my words may offend you, I’d be happy to take the crown if Zeus presents it. You think nothing worse could befall a man?”. In this quote, he’s willing to take a major step towards maturing and becoming independent, a big part of maturity. He states that he is indeed ready to be king, and even refers to himself as “man”. In my opinion, Odysseus’s departure is what influenced Telemachus’s decision to finally transform into a true man, no longer being the boy that he was known as all around before.

    ReplyDelete
  7. SunjeevFebruary 12, 2009 at 9:08 AM

    This topic about power based on gender is interesting because in the Odyssey, women are recognized and are one of the more powerful types. Athena, as most of the people above have recognized, is extremely strong. In Book 6 I consider Athena as the mastermind behind the whole plot. She gives Nausicaa the dream and if the white-armed princess did not get that dream, she would have not met Odysseus meaning that there is the chance that Odysseus would never have met the court. And if Odysseus did not meet the court, he would not obtain a boat to return to his native lands.

    Athena also does more to help Odysseus in previous chapters and this will probably continue as we head deeper into this book.

    Helen is another example of a woman in power. She is described as the woman who caused the Trojan War. Surely, she has some power if she is wanted to be queen in so many places. But when she returns to Menalaus, she is treated the same as anyone else. This is important because in many other cultures, the women are hiding themselves or they don’t really make names in the epics. Gilgamesh is a prime example of this. Utnapishtim’s wife was not given a name. She was only there to bake cookies although, I believe she did say one important line but that is about it.

    All in all, women are recognized just like men are in the Odyssey much more than other tales, epics, and cultures.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Danny LubFebruary 12, 2009 at 10:03 AM

    I disagree with Zac when he says "Athena had any great affect on the beginning of Telemachus' journey, since he was ready to leave anyway" because when Athena first saw him on the garden he was sitting outside just complaining about the suitors stealing from his father. Then once Athena comes she tells him that his father is "plotting a journey home" which fires up Telemachus to go on the search for his father. Also Athena says " i urge you, think how to drive these suitors from your halls". Then after this statement Telemachus becomes somewhat the alpha dog of the house and starts to give his own mother orders such as going back to her room and start to knit. Then he goes and tell all the suitors to leave and go back to their own houses or Zeus will show his wrath on them. I believe that this is a sign of Telemachus growing up and becoming a man.

    Also, you can see that Telemachus is growing up since both Nestor and Menelaus notice that his words are much surpass his age, and that he is very mature. Also with his great voice he calls the first meeting in 19 years (the first time since his father left him). This means that he already has a ruler mentality, and discusses important facts with Antinous.

    ReplyDelete
  9. AnonymousFebruary 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM

    At the beginning of the epic, Telemachus allows the suitors to take advantage of his home, and walk all over him. Without his father, he feels helpless and does not attempt to change anything.
    Once Athena tells him that he needs to change and ultimately "grow up", Telemachus realizes that he has to take charge. In realizing this, he becomes more focused on taking control of the chaos his house has turned into. He now takes responsibility for what his world has become, and plans to change it. As he says, "So mother, go back to your quarters. Tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders, men will see to that, but I most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house". Telemachus explains how he is now the head of the house, since his father is gone. He knows that he has to be the one to rule, at least until Odysseus.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Max SegalFebruary 14, 2009 at 6:26 PM

    In Chapter 1, Telemachus is obviously described as a young and powerless individual that is found crying over the suitors that are eating him out of house and home. He believed that his father had died and in addition his mother, because of traditions, was in danger of remarrying.
    I strongly agree with Katelyn that without Athena, Telemachus would have never showed any signs of growing up until his father came back. She in simple words tells him to be a man and start taking responsibility in his house hold. These words of Athena seem to give him courage and bravery and ultimately give him the power to step up and take charge in his household. Not only does Telemachus attempt to kick the suitors out of his home, but he also begins to order his own mother around in order to take control. In this process, we see the once young, naive, and powerless Telemachus show the strong and assertive characteristics of his proud father, Odysseus.

    ReplyDelete
  11. AnonymousFebruary 16, 2009 at 4:49 PM

    When Telemachus is first introduced to the reader he is still truly a boy. He is daydreaming about the father, who left him nearly twenty years ago to fight in a war. Telemachus is thinking of him only to drive away the men who are now endangering his wealth and destroying his property. He does not want to do anything to improve his situation. He is hoping that somehow his father will return and the suitors will vanish.
    Athena gives him hope, by predicting that his father is still alive and will return home soon, advice, by telling him to call the suitors together and announce their banishment from his father’s estate, and direction, by telling him to make the journey to Pylos and Sparta to ask for news of his father. All of this motivates Telemachus to take control of his life and by doing so he grows into a man. Telemachus meets with his father’s friends to learn about his story and any recent news. Although he can’t get rid of the suitors, he does have the gods warn them that his father is coming home soon and if they do not leave shortly they will be massacred. All of these actions he takes make him grow from the child he was to a responsible young man. All he needed was a little encouragement and support from Athena to take responsibility.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Maria KolesarFebruary 17, 2009 at 8:23 AM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Claire CohenFebruary 17, 2009 at 5:59 PM

    At the beginning of The Odyssey, it seems as though Telemachus is a young boy who is ignorant and weak, but as the epic continues, Telemachus begins to grow up and mature due to Athena’s encouragement. At the beginning of the epic, when Telemachus first meets Athena, he is immature because his father Odysseus left to fight in the Trojan War when Telemachus was very young. Most fathers help their children to mature, and lead them on the path to adulthood and maturity, but Telemachus was at a disadvantage because he did not have a father to lead him to maturity. Since he is not mature, the suitors believe he is powerless, and therefore they throw a party at his home in order to try to convince Penelope to marry them. When Athena and Telemachus have become friendly, she tells him that he must learn to mature and become an adult so that he can prove to the suitors that he is prepared to be the next king and so that one day he is crowned as the king of Ithaca. After Athena explains this to Telemachus, suddenly he takes a huge step down the path to maturity. This is one of the instances throughout The Odyssey that prove that women do have influence over men even if the men are superior to women. After Athena tells Telemachus to mature, everyone sees a different much more mature Telemachus. He immediately calls an assembly, and the last assembly had been nineteen years before called by Odysseus. This proved that Telemachus was following in his father’s footsteps towards maturity and towards becoming a king. When visiting Nestor and Menelaus, both men comment that Telemachus speaks well beyond his years proving that he is continuing to mature. Overall, I believe that when The Odyssey began, Telemachus was a young boy, unable to mature because he grew up without a father, but when Telemacus met Athena, it was a turning point in his life and he immeditaly began to mature and follow the path to adulthood.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Lizzie AronoffFebruary 21, 2009 at 8:02 AM

    From the start of the Odyssey the theme of growing up occurs multiple times. The theme of growing up is also very important as a major part of the book is Telemachus learning to mature and be able to take the crown. It was important that Telemachus mature and become a man, so that he is capable of becoming king. If he did not mature, then the crown would not survive another generation, and another family would take over the crown of Ithaca. At first, Telemachus does not stand up for himself and let the suitors take advantage of him and his fathers belongings. He was an immature child, lost in the luxury of not having to take care of anything. However, once Telemachus begins maturing, the suitors decide that they will stop him from becoming king. Because, once Telemachus grows up and becomes king they will not be allowed to feast off of his wealth anymore, and will have to consume their own things at home. One sign of Telemachus growing up is that he called a meeting with the elders of Ithaca. However, it represents his maturing because it was the first meeting since his father had disappeared, so for almost twenty years. This shows how Telemachus was starting to prepare himself for becoming a king. It also shows how he was starting to take responsibility, instead of being passive and careless. Without Telemachus’s father to raise him to be king, it is hard for him to mature and be able to handle the responsibility of being king.

    ReplyDelete
  15. *Melodi Gray-Junebug*Alot of Things But Normal HeheFebruary 21, 2009 at 8:31 AM

    From what I have read, Telemachus has gone from being the quiet, non-aggressive type to an assertive, verbal person. Before Telemachus let the suitors stay in and destroy his home but once Athena speaks to him he musters up the courage to say something. None-the-less his plan to kick them out is not 100% successful (the suitors talk back, oppose his decision,etc), but it is an attempt. Telemachus leaving to go find his father is a step towards his manhood.
    -In our class we have read about the journey of Telemachus briefly so there is not much else to say. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  16. AnonymousFebruary 21, 2009 at 12:06 PM

    In the odyssey, growing up is an important theme that reoccurs throughout the novel. Spinning off of what claire and meggie said, I believe that growing up is something that occurs, but it requires a little outside incentive for it to occur, or else, it is an extremely slow practice that just replicates the circle of life (you naturally get older through age, and don't strive to mature faster then you normally would). For example, before Athena comes to Telemachus and tells him to go find his dad, odysseus, he has no intentions of going out of the house and getting the maturing experience. Also, we see the theme of growing up with odysseus. In the end of book nine, he taunts the cyclops, which is an immature act. book nine is a flashback to the earlier part of his return. Earlier in the Odyssey (which is really later in real time), he is more mature. for example, when he is released by calypso, he immediately questions her, as he is not sure of her intentions. He eventually leaves, and when he does, there is no taunting, or any sort of gloating that he escaped, showing that he matured from when he was younger. This came not by himself, but with the help of the experience of trying to return home, but failing time and time again. to summarize, growing up does occur in the odyssey, but it requires some sort of outside stimulus, such as a person or an experience that you don't have a choice to be in.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Eve KermanFebruary 21, 2009 at 12:08 PM

    Growth is a central theme throughout the Odyssey. Telemachus is a primary character who exemplifies growth as the story progresses. When Telemachus is first introduced, he is grieving for his father as he watches suitors take over his home and try to win his mothers hand in marriage for political gain. An heir to the thrown, Telemachus is a threat to the men who are competing for the crown. As Odysseus's home becomes infested with dishonorable men who long to be king, Athena motivates Telemachus to take back his home and help his father. With Athena's encouragement, Telemachus quickly seems to mature and assume responsibility of his home and political standing. Although, the story begins with a weak, passive and powerless Telemachus, Athena seems to give Telemachus confidence which leads him to develop from a boy to a man.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Eve KermanFebruary 21, 2009 at 12:12 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Claire HobsonFebruary 21, 2009 at 1:50 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Claire HobsonFebruary 21, 2009 at 1:58 PM

    At the beginning of the Odyssey, Telemachus is a boy who feels helpless without his father there because the suitors take over his palace. He changes into a man over a short period of time. This is due to a visit from Athena disguised as Mentes. Her speech on page 86-87 in book tells him to “drive these suitors from your halls”. Athena outlines what Telemachus has to do to take control and to become a man. Telemachus listens to Athena and transforms quickly from a boy to a man, after the speech and does as Athena told him, traveling to Sparta and Plyos. He also tries to take charge of his house, and kick the suitors out.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Max SegalFebruary 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM

    We can all agree that Athena had a large role in the growing up of Telemachus. However, I strongly disagree with Claire Hobson when she says that Telemachus transforms quickly from a boy to a man. I think that his entire progression of growing up will continue throughout the book because he has not yet shown true signs of a man. Even though that he did attempt to kick the suitors out of his house, it did not completely work. The suitors still denied what he told them and continually talked back to him. This small attempt does not prove that he has now become a man. That process does not work that way because he has to continually show these manually qualities to be fully considered as a man. As I stated earlier, he is beginning to show similar qualities of his father, but I don’t think that he has quite fully become a “man.” I look forward to continuing to seeing in future chapters how Telemachus progresses in his journey to manhood.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Sami HawwaFebruary 23, 2009 at 11:40 AM

    It is obvious that Telemachus is powerless in the beginning of the epic. In book one he is seen as childless and weak when the suitors are eating out of his home, and loving his own mother. At one point I myself thought that Telemachus would never gain power… Although when Athena tells him to become powerful and take care of his belongings he starts to become a man, “Yet I’ll tell you great Odysseus is not dead.” (1. 226) From what Athena says to Telemachus he becomes more powerful… so overall the main reason Telemachus changes is because of one, Athena, and two the fact he was tired of being helpless… he himself wanted to change and become a responsible man.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Jeremy Olando (Jer Bear) SimmonsFebruary 25, 2009 at 5:27 PM

    Telemachus is definitely not that much of a factor at the beginning of the book due to his age. He is utterly powerless to do anything against the many suitors that are in his dwelling that want to win his mother in marriage. As the book streches on however he developes into a determined figure not wanting to believe that his father is dead, and in turn sets out on a journey to find word that his father lives. This theme of growth not only in Telemachus but in various characters in the book is essential in understanding the hidden messages and morals Homer was trying to get through to the reader.

    ReplyDelete
  24. AnonymousFebruary 26, 2009 at 4:46 PM

    When Telemachus is first introduced in the epic, he is a young boy. He is dreaming about his father who he can barely remember. Telemachus is thinking of him only to drive away the men who are destroying his property. He is hoping that somehow is father will return and his mothers suitors will immediately vanish. Athena then gives him hope by telling him that his father is still alive and that he will be home soon. She then gives him advice, saying that he must call the suitors together and tell them to leave immediately from his fathers house. HE then must travel to Pylos and Sparta to ask people about his father. All of this incites Telemachus to become a man and he then begins to take control of his life. All of these actions cause him to grow from the child that he once was to a young man who is leading his own life.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Allie SchwertnerFebruary 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM

    Telemachus becomes his father as the story progresses. While his father, Odysseus is away, he's being beaten on emotionally. The suitors had taken over his life and he was sick of the harassment he was receiving. As the story goes on we see Telemachus turn from a quiet and passive boy who lets people take advantage of him to an assertive man. Throughout the story he is plotting, planning and becoming more rational. If I were Telemachus I would have feared the suitors and would have taken the same approach. It was a smart decision waiting a long time to finally become assertive, even if it wasn't his own will. Even though he longed for his father to return and make everything better, he himself had taken in the role of his father.

    ReplyDelete
  26. AnonymousMarch 3, 2009 at 10:14 AM

    Towards the beginning of the epic, Telemachus seems weak without his father, Odysseus to guide him and tell him what to do. The suitors seem to just over power him, controlling his house, while also destroying it at the same time. This seems to be because he has no hope. No hope that Odysseus will ever come home and that his mother will eventually have to choose a new husband from the group of reckless suitors. However, when Athena gives him hope and sends him out to get information about Odysseus he becomes somewhat more mature and more hopeful. He is craftier like his father, and less willing to allow the suitors to walk over him as a doormat.
    When Odysseus does come home dressed and looking like a beggar, he is faced with an older, more mature Telemachus. Though, Telemachus is still not quite as strong, brave and well known as Odysseus was, not like the long lost king. Though, when Odysseus reveals himself to Telemachus, Odysseus opens a door for his son to take control of his house, and be the hero. In ways, Telemachus is now eager and ready to take on all of the suitors because he knows he has his great father there to back him, and protect him.
    In the start of the epic, Telemachus is just a scared boy who has lost his father, where are in the end his is a brave young man able and ready to fight along side his father to protect their house and his mother, Odysseus’ wife.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Riley SmallMarch 6, 2009 at 7:48 PM

    I think it's interesting that this specific question was posted while reading the first few books of the Odyssey. Truthfully, I believe that Telemachus grows up tremendously throughout the entire book. One of the most important instances of this is when Telemachus is with Eumaeus and Odysseus is there, but Telemachus still doesn't know that he is his father. The time when Odysseus tells Telemachus that he's his father is the point in time that Telemachus realizes that his father had been gone for too long and hasn't been able to see him grow up at all, instead he was fighting in the Trojan war then trying to get home. This is the general middle stage of Telemachus' growing up in the epic, but the final stage is in one of the final books, book twenty-two. In this book Odysseus kills the suitors and Telemachus steps up not as sidekick, but as a partner to stand side by side with Odysseus. Telemachus was able to show all of his talents to his great soldier of a father while also helping him defend his house and kill the suitors that were trying to take over the position of his father. Telemachus was gearing up for this moment from the instance the suitors started going after Penelope in the beginning of the story. This was Telemachus' moment to become the best and to start being the best for now and to times indefinite. All in all, Telemachus was able to grow up, but just not while Odysseus was watching. Telemachus grew into a strong, well-minded young man that will eventually be able to serve his country well as king when Odysseus gives up his throne later in life.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Kevin SperoffMarch 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM

    It’s obvious now that from the beginning of the epic in book 1 to where we are now at book 24, Telemachus has transformed fro ma boy into a man. But not just any man, every day, Telemachus becomes more and more like his father. You can see it in his actions, commanding his mother, and standing up to the suitors. Every aspect of his personality and behaviors has become more mature and sharper. I agree with max in saying that Telemachus did not transmute from a boy into a man very rapidly. Lets remember here that the story does take place over 20 something years. Therefore, Telemachus matured normally as any other boy would. Athena plays a large role in helping Telemachus mature, she influences his decisions and makes him more courageous and confident, similarly to what she does for Odysseus.

    ReplyDelete
  29. AnonymousMarch 8, 2009 at 5:25 PM

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  30. AnonymousMarch 8, 2009 at 5:29 PM

    In the beginning of The Odyssey, Telemachus lives his life as if he has no purpose. He is quite weak and lets the suitors walk all over him. He dreams about the day that his father will return, but doesn't believe that the day will ever come. He doesn't decide to do anything until Athena comes along and gives him a push. We don't see Telemachus for awhile until book 24, and he has made quite a transformation. He has become stronger and now has a reason too stand up for what is right. Telemachus has matured and grown from a young boy to a young man, and has begun to be more like his father.

    ReplyDelete
  31. nick barnettMarch 11, 2009 at 8:06 AM

    At the beginning of the story Telemachus is only a teenager or young adult who has not seen his fill of hardship and battle which keeps him young, unexposed and childish. When the suitors enter his home and begin to trash it and court his mother he realizes he must act on it and find his father for the first time. For this he must take on more adult and manly traits in order to be able accomplish his goals of driving away the suitors from his home. Everybody, especially the suitors, treat him as a child but when he first speaks to them all publicly he surprises them with his audacity. This scares the suitors which drives them to the thinking that they must kill him or he may get in the way of their actions. Throughout the story Telemachus continues to grow more and mature into a figure like his father which is supposedly his destiny. If was not to mature the suitors may never have left.

    ReplyDelete

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)