Wednesday, February 25, 2009

How much of the story is real?

As we all know odysseus is quite the trickster, and quite the story teller. during this story do you think that odysseus is telling the story to make himself look better to pheacians?
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32 comments:

  1. Ben AustinFebruary 26, 2009 at 7:41 AM

    well we do know that oddyseus is a trickster, though why would he lie about his triumphs possibility A. is he is trying to gloryfy himself. or he is trying to et home. though if he glorifies himself then he will get home because people will be so impressed that they will wish to take him home, but if you tell a amazing story then it wil impress and cause people joy or praise of you. though if he is lying how will we know the only people who know his true journey is the gods and him. And since he is a trickster he could probably lie pretty easily. So therefore his story we automatically believe because he is a main character, though is he an honorable man. He defeated troy by use of trickery. He cheats his way to get what he wants. So how do we know if it is true? We have to trust him or the gods, and some of the gods hold a grudge. So how can we know If what they say is true. Though if odysseus Is lying then he can be using this to an advantage so he can get back home. This can bring to meaning to “theres no pplace like home.”

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  2. Anna GarnitzFebruary 28, 2009 at 8:14 AM

    Odysseus does try to have himself appear “larger than life” and makes sure that he maintains his heroic reputation. His story telling is not reliable and it is not accurate because Odysseus will embellish his stories so he is always the hero or the victim. He also makes sure that everyone knows his accomplishments and respects his great and honorable name. Odysseus considers himself and tells other people that he is either the greatest man alive and a hero, or an innocent man who is the victim of the gods punishments. When Odysseus is talking with the Phaeacians, Odysseus comes off to be an innocent wanderer stranded in the sea only wanting to return home. He tells the people his stories of him as a victim to others cruelty but he does not discuss what he has done to others or reasons why some of the gods hate him. He wants to appear like a helpless man in order for others to feel pity and then he eventually give Odysseus what he wants out of sympathy. Earlier in the story, when Odysseus is at Polyphemus’s cave and he is almost safely off the island after blinding Polyphemus, he screams to the other Cyclops that it was him, Odysseus that blinded Polyphemus. Odysseus did not have to tell everyone this and by telling them who blinded Polyphemus, Poseidon later makes it his goal to prolong Odysseus’s journey home. If Odysseus would risk his life, by screaming to an island of Cyclops, just to gain the credit and brag about blinding Polyphemus, then we cannot trust that his stories are true. Since Odysseus seeks praise and acknowledgment for everything he does, and from everyone, Odysseus is likely to embellish all of his stories to receive admiration from his listeners.

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  3. AnonymousFebruary 28, 2009 at 11:13 AM

    Odysseus has indeed proven to be a trickster in this book. For example, he tricked the Cyclops into thinking that his name is Nobody. Though this is true, I don't believe that Odysseus lied about his tale. He may have been seeking glory and acknowledgement, as Anna stated, but he didn't fail to mention the mistakes or the failures that he's made during his journey. Odysseus is also sincere as says that he wants to make it home. The book tells how Odysseus is crying in a cave when he is with Calypso. Although i believe that he is telling the truth, it is possible that he exadurated when he told some of his stories. For example, I think he was lying when he said that he had no choice but to love Calypso. Even though he may be exadurating, this is part of thet culture.

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  4. Maddy PesecFebruary 28, 2009 at 11:20 AM

    Would Odysseus lie to the Pheacians to make him be viewed in a more favorable light? Absolutely. We have seen him break down crying numerous times in want for his homeland. If he thought that embellishing his story to make him seem less at fault, I have no doubt that he would do that. So did he lie? Although we have no way of knowing if what he says is true, there are certain times in the story where he certainly brushed over his own short comings. Like Anna said, when he turns back and reveals his identity to the Cyclopes, he knowingly puts his crew and himself at risk. Did his crew warn him before shouting? Was he drunk or not clearly thinking? We will never know, because those are probably not details he would have put in while trying to convince someone to give him a ship. Any side stories or details that would make him look like a bad captain were probably omitted. Another instance where we see Odysseus’ poor judgment is when he stays on and island for over a year; he was completely content to stay there. We get one or two sentences about how a shipmate finally helped him to realize that he had to leave, and then nothing else. No questioning of his character, no mention of any consequences that came from this event is ever brought up.
    On a separate note, how do we even know that any part of the story is true? It is possible for certain elements of it to be true-- maybe Poseidon’s anger came from a terrible storm, and the itinerary of the journey itself could have been based on some unfortunate man’s travels back to him homeland. But certainly the part about the Cyclopes was invented to entertain people. Scientists have never found the remains of a giant, or a Cyclopes, or any other monstrous creature in the Odyssey. So if certain parts are made up, then what tells us that any part of this epic is true?

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  5. Max SegalFebruary 28, 2009 at 3:28 PM

    I completely agree with Maddy that Odysseus wouldn’t even think twice about embellishing a story to make himself seem like a better person in the listener’s eyes. Much of the stories that we have heard Odysseus tell must be biased because they are only given in one perspective. We can obviously realize how much being remembered as a hero means to this society, so we can predict that Odysseus would never want to tell the story in which he made a mistake or was the “bad guy.” Odysseus will continually make himself seem like the ultimate character because that is how he wants others to remember him. All of us have probably embellished a story in the past just to make ourselves seem better because that is just in our nature. Even though I do not think that what he did is wrong, I still believe that his stories are often inaccurate and do not tell the whole truth. For example, in Book 12 when Odysseus falls asleep while his crew goes out to kill and eat some of the Cattle of the Sun. The way we read it, Odysseus had nothing to do with the killing of the cattle because it was entirely the crews fault. I honestly do not believe that Odysseus had nothing to do with the slaughtering of the cattle because everyone didn’t eat for weeks and they were all extremely hungry at the time.

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  6. Sonia FeldmanFebruary 28, 2009 at 4:09 PM

    Although I believe that the majority of his story is true, I think that Odysseus fabricated bits and pieces of his story. Odysseus placed a high value on glory and honor. He wanted to be remembered, and for all the right reasons. His desire for glory could easily push Odysseus to blame all of the mistakes on his crew. By making them out to be bumbling idiots, Odysseus in a way makes himself look better, acting as the only sane man among many fools. Also, Odysseus is desperate to reach Ithaca. He's been gone for 20 years from his beloved wife, and son who he barely knows. After over coming obstacle after obstacle, Odysseus just wants to be home. It's likely that Odysseus would try and make himself seem even more worthy of their help by embellishing his story. If he makes himself out to be a great hero, who was only held back by a faulty crew, he hopes the Pheaceans will decide to help him finally get home. Furthermore, since all of Odysseus' crew died over the course of his journey, no one can correct his story. He is free to explain his journey however he wants. Odysseus clearly had both the freedom and the motive to fabricate the story of his journey.

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  7. Greg "squabbles" FoleyFebruary 28, 2009 at 4:42 PM

    With epithets such as "the crafty man," and "the great trickster," it is clear that we can't trust all that odysseus says. Athena, his protector, also enjoys fooling people, and is amused at Odysseus'tricks. Unfortunately, we also know how much his legacy, and keeping his name alive (such as when he was almost out of Polyphemus' lair when told the cyclops that Odysseus blinded him), is important to him. We also know from other parts of the epic that Odysseus enjoys glorifying himself, and not taking responsibility for his mistakes (including Odysseus' "captivity" on Calypso island, where he sleeps with Calypso but blames it on his captivity). Therefore we have to conclude that we did not get the full story about Odysseus' past.

    To learn more about Odysseus' story, it would have been interesting for Homer to include what one of Odysseus' crewman had to say about the tale (even though they were killed by Helios). Odysseus' sailors were with Odysseus throughout his journey, and, according to Odyssues, hated him and sabotaged him many times. If one of the sailors told the same story, we could have compared the two, and then decided which parts were true and which parts were false.

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  8. Corey SteinbergFebruary 28, 2009 at 5:27 PM

    Odysseus is a good storyteller. People say that he isn't because he may glorify himself. So what. A storyteller tells a story. If he tells about all the places he been to, he is a good storyteller. He glorifies himself a little, but h keeps the story on track, not in the case of the first speaker in the assembly speaker series, who repeatedly says and I quote, "Well, this brings me to another story about the time when....." Odysseus keeps the story on track, tells of all the places he gone to, all the adventures he has been on, and all the different things that he has encountered. He delivers the story in a clear and understandable way, even when it is something that is bad against him. When he starts talking about something he doesn't like, does he segway off into another story with "This brings me to another story."? No. He keeps on with the story. He is a good storyteller.

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  9. Jordan BFebruary 28, 2009 at 5:55 PM

    Although I do not believe that Odysseus is making up the whole story, I do think he is altering it a bit. We all know that everyone makes mistakes and we definitely know that Odysseus is looking for glory, why wouldn’t a guy like Odysseus lie about the mistakes and embarrassments that him and his crew have been through? In Odysseus’ eyes this(telling the Phaeacians his story) would be a perfect opportunity to gain more fame and glory for himself and blame the mess ups on someone else even if it included ruining his reputation with the gods.

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  10. AnonymousFebruary 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM

    Much like Anna said, and what we talked about in the Carter class, I believe that Odysseus embellishes the truth to make himself seem more magnificent and great. When they wash up on the island with Helios's cattle and Odysseus claims that his men slaughter and eat them, he very distinctly withdraws himself from the scene entirely. He claims that he was sleeping and completely out of the situation. I think he does this to make the people who are listening to his story (Phaecians) see him as, (perfectly said by Anna) "always the hero or the victim". I think he likes to be represented as innocent in the way of it never being any of his fault. Whether he blames his "mutinous" crew, or the Gods, Odysseus is always finding someone else to take the blame for things that he often initiates. For example, when they are in Polymepheus' cave, he again blames his men that they stole the cheese and that it is their fault. When he is telling his stories, he tries to show his own greatness. He tells his crew, "... But even from there, my courage, my presence of mind and tactics saved us all" (277). In saying this, he sets this up to be a perfect example of him boasting his greatness/superiority, or trying to portray himself, as he says, courageous, tactical, and witty.

    I don't think that Odysseus completely lies in his stories, I think that he simply adds, or manipulates the truth to his own benefit and to make himself seem more heroic or grand. I believe that Odysseus definitely makes a very conscious attempt to appear more brilliant and heroic towards the Phaecians.

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  11. Jonathan MecklerMarch 1, 2009 at 8:21 AM

    Odysseus emerged from the Trojan War a hero, a great warrior as well as a cunning man who came up with the idea of the Trojan horse that ultimately resulted in the defeat of the Trojans. In telling the Phaeacians of his attempt to return home after his heroics in Troy, I think that he probably slanted his story to continue to present the image of the hero that he had earned in Troy. In fact, when he reveals who he is to the Phaeacians, he immediately sets the stage for a heroic story about himself. He tells the Phaeacians, “I am Odysseus, son of Laertes, known to the world for every kind of craft-my fame has reached the skies.” (page 212 lines 21-22) Throughout his storytelling he constantly recounts how his cleverness saved the day for his men. He tells his listeners how he ingeniously told Polyphemus that his name was “Nobody”. Thus when Odysseus and his men later attack Polyphemus and he cries out for help, he screams that “Nobody” is trying to kill him. This leaves the other Cyclops to believe that no mortal is harming Polyphemus and thus they do not come to his aid. Odysseus tells the Phaeacians how he heroically confronted Circe to change his crew back from pigs to men, at great risk to his own life. Odysseus presents a very vivid picture to his audience of his cleverness and heroism, yet when things went badly for him and his crew, he presents theses events as if they were the faults of others and never his own. There were two incidents that resulted in calamities for Odysseus and his men, in which Odysseus claims no responsibility for as he says that he was asleep at the time. The first instance was when they were within miles of Ithaca and his men opened the bag given to Odysseus by Aeolus, while Odysseus was fast asleep, resulting in the winds being released and blowing them back to Aeolus’s island. The second instance is when they are on the island of Thrinacia and have been warned not to eat the cattle and sheep of the Sun god. Odysseus says his men slaughtered the sheep and cattle when he was in a deep sleep that he was placed in by the gods. The men’s offense against the Sun god results in the ultimate catastrophe, their total destruction. By saying that he was asleep, it conveniently absolves Odysseus of any responsibility for these two tragedies. It makes you wonder, particularly on the island of Thrinacia, where Odysseus and his men were starving, if Odysseus was truly asleep and not involved or aware of the slaughtering of the animals. Since all of Odysseus’s men are dead, there is no one to contradict his version of the stories in which he presents himself as a clever, brave hero whose men are destroyed by their own foolishness.

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  12. Kevin SperoffMarch 1, 2009 at 8:26 AM

    It’s hard to tell if Odysseus is embellishing his story in order to make himself look better, of if those are just some fantastic obstacles that he’s overcome. I believe that Odysseus is not lying about his story. He has no need to exaggerate in order to make him look better when he is “a god among men”. He would have no motive to lie about his story to look good, because Athena has already made him look probably better than he would have before. If his story weren’t true, then the Phaecian ship that harbored him wouldn’t have turned into stone. Because that prophecy came true, it shows that Poseidon had been vexed at Odysseus, therefore, Odysseus actually did kill the Cyclops. Obviously, the story is true. First, he would have no reason to lie about his story, or embellish it. Lastly, all of the evidence and the events throughout the rest of the story show that his trials and tribulations were indeed, a reality.

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  13. willie woodsMarch 1, 2009 at 12:43 PM

    There is no way of knowing if Oddysseus is telling the truth in his stories but based on Odysseus' personality it seems very likely that he would exaggerate and embellish his stories in order to make his self look better, especially to the Pheacians. Homer also refers to him as the "Great Trickster". This further demonstrates his knack for tricking/lying to people. I am sure he would have no problem editing his own stories and ignoring his mistakes when telling of his adventures. Doing all of this only makes him seem more heroic and honorable.

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  14. Morgan CoharaMarch 1, 2009 at 2:06 PM

    It is not able to be proven that Odysseus told the whole truth in his story, but it can be assumed that he may have lied in parts of it to increase his chances of getting help. As shown throughout the book, Odysseus likes to exaggerate on his travels and aggrandize himself to make himself look better. Also, this would not be the fist time that Odysseus has lied to move himself farther along in his travels. For example, when Odysseus encounters Polyphemus, he lies to him about his name in order to secure his safety. This gives reason to why Odysseus may be lying about parts of his story. To again support the theory of Odysseus's lying are the embellishments of Odysseus's name, like great Odysseus", or "cunning Odysseus, and "the great trickster". The embellishment show that Odysseus may be fooling the Pheacians with his story. Overall, Odysseus is most likely changing his story to win the hearts of the Pheacians as he did to others, to help his journey home.

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  15. Anthony HsiehMarch 1, 2009 at 5:10 PM

    I believe that Odysseus changed the story to make himself look good in front of the Phaeacians. This is for four reasons. The first reason is Odysseus’ purpose. Odysseus needed to get the Phaeacians to bring him home. If the Phaeacians don’t feel bad for him, or that the story is not reliable, then Odysseus would not have gotten to Ithaca. Odysseus may have made up the story in order to impress the Phaeacians and that way, he could get back to Ithaca. The second reason why Odysseus would make himself look good would be because he is a king. One would expect that a king would do amazing things during the adventure of a king. By making up a story, Odysseus would benefit greatly because the Phaeacians would recognize him as the great king. This would lead to two things. The first would be that the Phaeacians would want Odysseus to come back and give him many things because of a good guest-host relationship. The second would be that the Phaeacians may spread rumors that Odysseus went on an amazing journey and everyone would think highly of Odysseus. The third reason would be that he could. Odysseus, being “the teller of tales”, would want to tell stories that may not be true because he would want to show off his skill, especially when a goddess, Athena, praises him for it. The last reason is that even though we do not know if he really does change the story of his adventure, when he is in Ithaca, we know that he makes up stories about who he is. Since he did it in Ithaca in order to complete his plan, he would probably make up stories in order to get back to his own country, which was also part of a plan. For these reasons, Odysseus probably changed the story of his adventure in front of the Phaeacians.

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  16. AnonymousMarch 1, 2009 at 6:56 PM

    I think that in the story that Odysseus tells the Phaeacians, he tells the truth but he does a lot of embellishing as well. Although there is no actual evidence to prove that what Odysseus is saying is actually true I think it is because most of the adventures he described involved Gods, and the Gods would probably punish him if he was lying. Because we have read farther into the book, I know that he is not punished by the Gods for anything like that so it is pretty safe to say that his stories are relatively true. I do believe that he is embellishing his stories slightly because he wants to seem like a hero or in some cases the victim. I think this is the case because the stories of him in battle make him sound like an extremely magnificent and outstanding, almost godlike person. I feel that because of this he thinks that people expect him to be so godlike in all aspects of himself. Because it is impossible for everyone to be perfect I find it hard to believe that everything he described was absolutely true. I think he added some details to stories to make it seem like he overcame more extraordinary things than he really did.

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  17. j jafMarch 1, 2009 at 7:26 PM

    I think that a majority of Odysseus’ stories are true, but like bloggers before me have said, he embellishes the stories to make himself seem greater than he really is, and predominantly blameless for all bad things that befall himself and his crew. For example, Odysseus recounts to the Pheacians,”Helios burst out in a rage to all he immortals: ‘ Father Zeus… That crew of Laertes’ son Odysseus, they ate my cows, the great joy to my heart. ‘”(chapter 12, lines 405-408) There is no possible way that Odysseus would know exactly what Helios and the other gods said on Mt. Olympus. I think he makes this part of his story up so he will seem more important to the Pheacians and for his fame to be told throughout the world. If he makes himself out to be the most important man alive to the Pheacians he is more likely to get a ride home and gifts from the Pheacians. Another reason why he could have made this part of his story up is to show the Pheacians what punishments the gods intended to give him. When he continues his story, he tells of how the gods punish him exactly how they said they would on mount Olympus. This is to make it appear as if the gods have already punished him and they are no longer against him. My reasoning is because when King Aeolus found out the gods were against Odysseus he stopped helping Odysseus and Odysseus doesn’t want the same thing to happen to him with the Pheacians.

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  18. Sami HawwaMarch 1, 2009 at 8:50 PM

    It is obvious that Odysseus is a trickster, however I believe that when he speaks of his story with the Pheacians he’s not lying but is making himself look better by over exaggerating. First of there is no evidence to say that “Odysseus is lying about his voyage” although there is evidence of him telling the truth. When he blinds the Cyclops (who happens to be Poseidon’s son) he uses his mind, and tricks to overpower the creature and end up stabbing him in the eye.
    Because he blinded the Cyclops he had to go through many unnecessary obstacles with Poseidon and the other gods. Although I think that he over exaggerates when he claims he told the blinded Cyclops that he was no one. Overall I think that he not only used his tricks through the voyage but also in the story… he tricked the Pheacians.

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  19. Henry Allen Holmes XVIIMarch 1, 2009 at 9:04 PM

    Lets face it; trolls, nymphs, fairies and Cyclops are not real nor will they ever be. Clearly there are some scientific issues with that. Interestingly enough Odysseus has a tendency of stretching the truth he, sometimes flat out lying. This is a common theme in the book no doubt. Don’t think however Homer is justifying lying in anyway shape or form.

    Odysseus is in a sticky situation; gone from home for over two decades while the evil suitors inhabit his palace. The long journey home is no easy one for any man, for it is filled with many obstacles. The lying as a form of trickery is only to preserve his own safety, and it is not selfish in that way for it does not comprise the life of others. Disguising his initial character to his son was essential so that he could approach the delicate situation with the suitors correctly. In this example he in no way harmed or comprised anyone due to his initial lies to his son.

    “Odysseus does try to have himself appear “larger than life” and makes sure that he maintains his heroic reputation. His story telling is not reliable and it is not accurate because Odysseus will embellish his stories so he is always the hero or the victim.” This is Ana’s argument and I couldn’t disagree more. Odysseus is not self-centered and does not do things to be the heroin. He took a risk, compromising his own safety by saving his friends who were turned into pigs by an evil woman. He didn’t gain anything but the reunion of his friendship with his comrades. How could you argue that he does his actions to “embellish” his heroism. There is no textual evidence to prove this. Lastly the gods especially Athena has looked out for Odysseus in times of peril. Based on the tendencies of Greek gods it is not likely they would support a man how lies to preserve is heroic figure. It is the character that he sustains while overcoming the largest advertises that make him a man and a one people can look up to. Therefore his crafty lies are only to contribute to a greater calling; a cause that is bigger then the current situation.

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  20. Nick HajekMarch 2, 2009 at 6:19 AM

    Isn't it human nature that we want to feel superior in front of people? Don't we want to present ourselves in a way that makes people envy your abilities, and your talents?
    Naturally, Odysseus overuses hyperboles in order to present a positive image of himself, instead of permitting scandalous rumors and grungy tales to ruin his image.
    Odysseus's part in many of his stories has been aggrandized extensively, which may have something to do with him being the main character. Something that also should be considered is his personality; he is not a trickster, more than he is crafty. Tricksters trick other people into helping them to further their own goals. Crafty people such as Odysseus tend to just be tricky when they must, and are good in tight situations.

    So, Odysseus has more than likely embellished his role in his adventures. But we cannot really blame him for it, it's just who he is.

    <(^w^)>

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  21. StuMarch 2, 2009 at 5:20 PM

    I agree with Henry with the fact that Odysseus is using mythical creatures such as the Cyclops to make his story seem more appealing to the listener. Sure, Odysseus had just returned from a terrible ten year war. One could twist and exaggerate a story such as the Odyssey to make them self look like a hero. But how many other ships were hauling soldiers with the same story? A lot. If Odysseus wanted the Phaeisians' help sailing back to Ithica, he needed his story to stand out from the typical “I'm returning from a horrible war and need to get back to my wife” story. If the Odyssey is true, Cyclops was probably just a larger-than-normal, one-eye-blind, cannibal. Calypso was probably just a woman living alone on a deserted island. Circe could have served Odysseus and his men food laced with hallucinogens to make him perceive that his men were pigs.

    Even today, people like to exaggerate their stories to intrigue listeners and make their story different than others. An otherwise normal trip to the movies could turn into a funny and interesting story if one exaggerates the short and non relevant event of them tripping on their own shoelace. It is our own human nature to change a story to our favor. The Odyssey is nonetheless a story that can easily be twisted into a biased statement. The fact that many impossible events occur in the Odyssey leads many to believe that Odysseus either made up the story completely or exaggerated it in his favor.

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  22. Anna GarnitzMarch 3, 2009 at 2:29 PM

    Although I do not think that Odysseus is a reliable story teller, he is predictable, meaning that we should expect embellished and exaggerated stories from Odysseus due to his need of praise and commendation. Odysseus’s stories are mainly accurate, as long as we do not interpret his tales as Odysseus being either the perfect hero or the helpless victim. In every story that Odysseus tells, he had either done something wrong to become the hero, or upset someone to become the victim. Since we know Odysseus tries to make himself look “larger than life” and make it look like he can do no wrong, when reading his stories, we should automatically expect that he has acted dishonorably to get to where he is. By using his predictability as a tool to reading his stories, you can take Odysseus’s untrustworthy tales and find the true and real meanings in them.

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  23. Aden WexbergMarch 4, 2009 at 9:21 AM

    Looking back to Ben's comment, he brings up a good point: Odysseus defeated Troy with trickery, bested Polyphemus by changing his name, and time and again hides things from his crew. The gods who support Odysseus, most prominently Athena, use deceit and manipulation to achieve their desired ends. So how can anyone believe what Odysseus tells them? The most important thing to realize is that Odysseus is a man of character. He cares for his family and friends, looks after his allies, and is quick to defend the innocent. Menelaus and Nestor describe Odysseus as a great man, going as far as to say they miss him more than any other fallen comrade. That they hold Odysseus in such high regard demonstrates that he is loyal to, and looks after, his friends. That is why King Alcinous and the Phaecians can trust the main arc of Odysseus's incredible story. Some details, on the other hand, may have been changed or elaborated on. Perhaps Odysseus was not as faithful to Penelope as he insists he was, and maybe it was not Odysseus who orchestrated the escape from Polyphemus's cave. Still, one can trust that the most important parts of Odysseus's story happened in real life.

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  24. MitchMarch 5, 2009 at 7:19 AM

    Odysseus has proven to be quite a cunning character thus far in the epic. However, I do not believe that he embellished stories very much, if at all. Remember, Odysseus is extremely humble, and shares his plunder with everyone. He doesn't seem like the type of person who would lie about his journey. Also, he has used his cleverness is mostly dire situations. For example, the circumstance with Polyphemus. Odysseus and his men were on the verge of a horrific death. However, he comes up with this sneaky plan to blind the single-eyed beast, then say his name was Nobody, then leave the cave on the undersides of sheep. Odysseus's time with the Cyclops is an example of when he uses this cleverness. Additionally, it doesn't take cleverness to embellish a story; it takes more smoothness in story-telling, which Odysseus does have. However, I don't think that Odysseus changed his story very much if at all.

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  25. Wesley HertsMarch 5, 2009 at 7:34 AM

    As many of the above comments have stated, Odysseus is quite the trickster, and will never give up the habit of lying. He even has the courage to lie to the gods, seen when he lies to Athena when he wakes up on Ithaca. Clearly, his lies are very good and a complete part of his character because his name is often accompanied by epithets ranging from 'the crafty man' to 'the great tactician.' I would not reject the idea that Odysseus embellished his travels in order to impress the Phaecians. Looking into his history, Odysseus thrives on his ability to trick people, from the strategy of the Trojan Horse to convincing Polyphemus his name was 'nobody.' Also, when Odysseus entertains his Phaecian crew with his travels, he has no one to support his tales and is freely able to create any story he wanted. However, I am not proposing something as ridiculous as "Odysseus' story was not real, all of his experiences were created by drugs" because that is completely unrealistic. The idea I am proposing is that Odysseus fabricated parts of his story, and it is highly likely because Odysseus has a large history of making false background tales.
    The main part of his journey that I question is his trip to the Underworld. Simply because that it is extremely difficult and dangerous to access the Underworld, and equally hard to escape. It would not be hard for Odysseus to create this story, and it surely would impress anyone who heard it.

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  26. Claire HobsonMarch 5, 2009 at 4:37 PM

    I believe that many parts of the story are not true for two main reasons. The first is when someone tells a story they want it to be exciting to make them look good. For someone as egocentric as Odysseus in the Greek culture where reputation is everything, it is essential to have a good life. There is no one to contradict his story for his crew members died whether it happened as he said or not. The other reason is that Odysseus is all about plundering and taking things that are not his. In his story this gets him into trouble, such as when he takes Polyphemus’s cheese leading his men to get eaten. When he arrived to Pheacia, he had nothing, not even clothes on his back. There had to be a reason why and his adventurous story not only tells why he does not have anything but it depicts him as grander person and therefore the Pheacians would want to help him.

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  27. David NelsonMarch 5, 2009 at 7:05 PM

    Most of the story that Odysseus tells is not real. When he tells the story he adds parts to make the story more interesting so that the people he is telling the story to stay interested in what he is telling them. He is telling them lies to make the story more interesting, and so that when he tells the story about his crew dying people believe it. Odysseus wanted it to sound like his journey home was not all his fault that his ship was destroyed. He knew that he could tell the Phaesians anything that he wanted to and they would believe it. They would believe it because it was his journey and they would believe everything he said. None of his crew members were there to tell the Phaesians that what he was telling them was false. The stories he tells are fake because there is no way that there is a 6-headed monster that eats one crew member for every head that she has. Also, there isn’t a swirling pool that destroys the ship. These are the ways Odysseus tells the Phaesians that his ship got destroyed. However, he tells them through lies. Also, there is no way that Athena helped him and talked to him throughout the whole book. Everything that Odysseus tells them is a lie, just to make the stories more interesting and make himself look more like a hero.

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  28. Sonia FeldmanMarch 6, 2009 at 6:22 AM

    In argument to Sami's assertion that because we know that certain parts of his story are true we know that the whole story is true:

    Certainly Odysseus told large chunks of truth, but I also believe he made up quite a few lies. Just because we know for certain he is telling the truth on some things, maybe he was simply telling the truth to further glorify himself. Of course he talks about blindly Polyphemus, and upsetting Posiedon, which we know to be most likely true because he has yet to reach home. This story, in fact, is a testament to his strength, and trickery, both Greek values. Since we can assume that this likely happened, as a cause for his delay in reaching Ithaca, I would agree that, yes in this instance he was probably telling the truth. However,this one truth does not prove over all reliability. This story glorifies himself and he had no reason not to give an account to his hosts.

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  29. AnonymousMarch 6, 2009 at 8:48 AM

    Homeric values are a big role in The Odyssey, and one Homeric value is that you must be remembered, and not die without anyone to witness your feat. So why wouldn’t Odysseus try and make himself look better, all his crew is dead anyway so there is no one to deny his claims as a great tactician and leader. Also there isn’t much basis to say he didn’t accomplish these unthinkable tasks since we don’t hear the story from anyone else besides Odysseus. The only ramifications of his potential lying are how others perceive him, but from his future actions it seems like what he is saying can happen. He can kill a Cyclops, since he’s also strong enough to string a bow and shoot an arrow through iron axes. He might be lying but the chances are he is telling the truth.

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  30. Jackson OppenheimMarch 6, 2009 at 8:49 AM

    I think that Odysseus is just exaggerating the story a bit to look better to the Pheacians. Dying in honor and glory is an important Homeric value, and this is something that Odysseus seeks. By exaggerating the story, he is able to sound greater and more important. Odysseus claims that his reason for being stuck on the island is entirely the crew’s fault, even though he made mockery of the Cyclops. That was his fault, and a stupid one at that. He is trying to make the story seem as though he is this great and glorious person, who is never at fault, when in truth he is. However, he is credited with creating the Trojan Horse (which I assume you know of), so no doubt that he is smart. In addition, later in the story, he shoots an arrow through a bunch of axes, so no doubt that he is strong, however I believe that he is still not entirely truthful because he says that he is at no fault in being on the island.

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  31. Frankie RicoMarch 6, 2009 at 4:54 PM

    I definately think Odysseus may be changing the story a little bit, but only by adding a few positive and descriptive adjectives of himself. He is definately truthful when he describes his escapes out of sticky situations like with the Cyclops, but not without calling himself such words like "cunning." He was not so cunning though when he mocked the monster because then he might have been home I don't know, a few years earlier. After all, it is a common trend in this epic to talk greatly of yourself so that you may be known throughout the world and have a legacy, which Odysseus is doing a fine job of. But I have to admit, his is smart when he calls himself Nobody to the Cyclops and when he builds the Trojan horse. However, I also believe his stories when they involve his crew because he does still grieve for their losses even though it is their fault for some of their deaths.

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  32. Anirudh DasarathyMarch 6, 2009 at 6:37 PM

    I think that Odysseus is definitely changing his story as he goes but he is not deviating from the truth to the extent that it is an entirely different story. In other words, he is essentially just exaggerating certain portions. The question at hand is not whether this is the truth or not - the current question can easily be answered by just looking at the text and by reading between the lines as well as keeping a detailed index of the minute details. A better question is why - what was his motive for doing so. First, it would seem reasonable that Odysseus would want to go home. Regardless of his interactions with Calypso, he would always tell her as well as other people about how he longed for home. By making a few tweaks to his story here and there to magnify his glory and to intensify the way in which people look at him, it makes it easier and it becomes the volition of others to join Odysseus's cause. Second, Odysseus himself has gone through long and treacherous ordeals. By embellishing and exaggerating some of the details, it would seem, at least in the eyes of other people that he was a bit "above" on a standard both physically and mentally than he really was - once again linking back to the argument as to why it would seem likely for him to get other people to join his cause so that he could get back home quicker and easier. As a result, I would argue that Odysseus would, at a base be tempted to change his story and thus we cannot believe completely what he says. Does this mean we just ignore what he has to say and reject him? First, that would set a precedent that we reject all stories told to us - the news, rumors (although this would be a nontrustworthy source anyway) etc - a clear path to isolationism. Second, at a base, Odysseus would be saying the truth in certain circumstances. It is believable that the incident with the cyclops Polyphemus actually occurred, as it gives a fundamental reason as to why Odysseus is undergoing this ordeal - Poseidon wants revenge. So, we don't blindly look at what Odysseus says, but rather remain alert for contradictions or certain incidents that seem unbelievable, but this doesn't mean we reject his entire story completely.

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