Sunday, February 1, 2009
Gender and power
In this, as in other narratives we've read this year, much of the authority in the story is possessed for men. Still, in this epic we see several examples of women who possess different kinds of power, including Penelope, Calypso, Circe, and the goddess Athena. What is the relationship between gender and power in this story?
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Gender is a large factor in the amount of power people have, however, social standing seems to rank higher that gender. For Athena, she gets her power from being a goddess. If she were just a mortal women she would not have the same influence on the other men and women in the epic.
ReplyDeleteAs for Calypso, she gets her power from Poseidon. Not only is Poseidon high ranking as a man, he is a god. Thus, having him stand behind her allows her to have more power then she normally would as a nymph.
In this epic, like many of the other, power seems to be on a sliding scale based on gender, social status, and who your acquainted with.
I have only read through the first book so I can't really provide a detailed analysis of the whole book, let alone the significant first part. Nevertheless, I will present my views as of the first book.
ReplyDeleteFurther, the views that I present in this comment may or may not reflect my own views. I am only posting this for sake of controversy.
It seems that gender and power has a very close tie throughout this book (I will refer to The Odyssey itself as an epic). Let us first look at Penelope. Although one may at first seemingly believe that Penelope is a very powerful character throughout this epic and that this reflects that those of Greece did not accept the view more orthodox in other cultures such as the Mesopotamians, Ancient Indians, and perhaps even the Ancient Chinese of a more chauvinistic society, Penelope does not even have enough power to maintain self-respect. Had Penelope had the ideal amount of power that one would idealize her to have, then she would have been able to dismiss the numerous suitors who were essentially taking control of her house.
Now let us analyze Calypso's situation. Calypso can be viewed as a figure who has sufficiently large power. This is clear by her ability to hold Odysseus captive on her island for a large period of time. However, this cannot be used whatsoever as an example of her power and thus a rejection of views regarding genders in other cultures as you may see above in this comment. Calypso's power mainly stems from a more powerful god Poseidon - one who is of male gender.
From these two examples, one may be able to conclude that insofar as we consider only the first book, it seems that although on a first glance power is divided almost equally, like previous civilizations, the real power within the gender conflict as an obvious question resides unfairly with those of male gender.
As in a lot of the books that we have read this year, the Odyssey appears to be very male-dominant. The heroes are the males, and the women are the people holding the men back and "tying them down" to be a woman's husband. An example of this comes from Calypso who was almost a nuisance in Odysseus's journey and trying to hold him back from his destiny and make him her husband. This shows her as a woman who holds back a hero for her personal satisfaction. A male example comes from Odysseus. The story follows Odysseus's whole journey to his "destiny" and he is widely recognized, even by the gods. This shows that he holds some importance as a person, and is looked at by the people as stronger because of his male warrior identity.
ReplyDeleteIn the Odyssey, a book written by Homer, both genders have power. However, in general men have more power. For example, the king of the gods, Zeus, is a man.
ReplyDeleteAlso, in book 1 Telemachus orders his mother around, "'...mother, go back to your quarters. Tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders, men will see to that. but I most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house'" (89).
Gotta be honest, I do not see the relevance of this exercise. I feel that the demand of this assignment is not appropriate to ask of me a human being, because i have only been asked to read the first chapter. To ask me a question of this magnitude, with my lack of knowledge of the book as a whole, is not appropriate. To ask to derive a thesis about the roles of gender in this book with only the knowledge of the first chapter, is unneeded. Therefore, i am not going to respond to this question until I have a further understanding of this novel. Thank You.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletein this epic the men seem to poses most of the power, however there are a few female characters such as Penelope and the goddess Athena. we have not really talked much about this book and have only read the first book (chapter). It was very confusing and although it is obvious that the men possessed a lot of power, Athena being a goddess automatically gives her power. an example of this is on page 79 when she is first introduced. The Odyssey describes Athena with an Epithet, "sparkling eyed" Athena. throughout the first book she demonstrated authority over men and kings. on page 88, Athena visits king Telemachus and leaves him "overwhelmed with wonder" Telemachus also knew "this was a god that made it well and made at once for the suitors, a man like god himself" (88)
ReplyDeletethe only reason i disagree with Jenna is because Athena is at least mentioned alot.The only other character that is female and is mentioned frequently is Sita from the Ramanyana.
ReplyDeleteSome power is reflected from males: Calypso gets her power from poseidon the sea god. Her power is displayed in this quote "the bewitching nymph, the lustrous goddess". This reaffirmes her position of power
I dont really know what im talking about. maybe i should stop now so i dont make a fool of myself. You should take my opinions with a grain of salt, or maybe a whole tub of salt.
The Odyssey strongly stresses that the male is dominant in the epic even though the I'm only through the first book. For example, the epic is called The Odyssey, which is about the man Odysseus and his entire journey back to his home land. As Jenna said Calypso holds Odysseus back from his destiny for her own wants, which is an example of the power being stressed towards the men because of the men's destiny being valued and seen as more important than women's wants or desires.
ReplyDeleteIf we look at the Gods and Goddesses throughout the Odyssey, we see that the power is widespread and equal for both genders. Calypso and Athena are Goddesses and have power. Athena is Zeus's daughter who helps out Odysseus by telling Calypso to let him go back to his home land of Ithaca. She has the power to tell Calypso to let Odysseus go back. Also, when Posiden was trying to hurt Odysseus, Ino helped him by giving him her scarf of immortality to swim to shore and escape Posiden's storm. There are also Gods that have power. Zeus is the main God who oversees everything that is going on. He tells his daughter to help out Odysseus and tells her to go to the island where Calypso is holding Odysseus captive. There, she tells Calypso to let Odysseus go. Also, there is an example when power is equal when Posiden tries to hurt Odysseus by sending a storm, Athena and Ino stop the storm and then Odysseus goes to shore safely. Overall, the power is equal so far through book 5 in the Odyssey
ReplyDeleteI believe that from what has been witnessed in the first couple of books, women actually are illustrated as dominant. Sure Zeus is the god of all gods, but many times one sees Athena convince Zeus to make a decision. In fact, she convinced Zeus to let Odysseus go, a rather smart decision. Perhaps Zeus wouldn't have made this decision had Athena not persuaded him into it. Furthermore, Calypso was the one with the power to contain Odysseus, and although Poseidon played a role in this act, he could not even kill Odysseus. Again, we note that Ino, a woman, saves Odysseus. It is also observed that Helen has the power to start the Trojan War. Penelope is capable of tricking her suitors not just for one year, but for three years. Men are also illustrated as weak and sensitive. Not to say that being sensitive contributes to the amount of power one holds, but it is often seen associated with lack of power. The time we have seen Odysseus, it was stated that, “Off he sat on a headland, weeping there as always, gazing out over the barren sea through blinding tears (155).” This is saying that Odysseus cries all the time, exemplifying that he is weak. Now Penelope cried as well, but not all the time. Several times she is seen not crying.
ReplyDeleteIn the Odyssey, as in other books that we have read this year, women are seen as the weaker sex. Females are also held to different standard then males, especially when it comes to sexual morals. In the gods´ demand for Calypso to release Odysseus, we observe a double standard. While Zeus has multiple mortal female lovers, he and other gods take issue with Calypso for having a mortal male lover, Odysseus. Calypso’s indignation is evident when she exclaims, “Hard-hearted you are, you gods! You unrivaled lords of jealousy-scandalized when goddesses sleep with mortal, openly, even when one has made the man her husband.” (156) Calypso recounts instances when goddesses took mortal male lovers, and were chastised by the gods and even saw their lovers killed. When Dawn took Orion as a lover, the gods were horrified and Artemis, a god, kills Orion. When Demeter took Iasion as a lover, Zeus was angered and killed Iasion with thunderbolts. Thus, we see a pattern of goddesses being condemned or denied the right of taking mortal lovers. Zeus, king of the gods, had over 25 female mortal lovers. There is a parallel to this in the Ramayana where there is also a double standard. Sita, after being kidnapped by Ravana and held captive for an extended period of time, is rejected by her husband, Rama, even though she has been faithful. Even with the mere appearance of sexual impropriety, a woman is condemned. It should be noted that Rama is an incarnation of Vishnu, a Hindu god, and Sita is an incarnation of Lakshmi, Vishnu’s consort. We see in both epics that women are held to a higher standard in their love lives than males.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that through book 8 of The Odyssey the men and the women both have some amount of power; whether it's through trickery, deceit or just blunt force both genders seem to get the job done. Especially since Athena the female goddess is very powerful and is helping Odysseus get home. Athena sets out to many places and to many peoples to convince them to help Odysseus get back to his homeland. Athena is especially successful when she is convincing the townspeople in book 8 of the Odyssey. Athena tells all the people that Odysseus is a great man and he needs assistance in getting home. While in the lands of the people, Broadsea offers his house to Odysseus, as the proper host should. Broadsea eventually breaks the host/guest relationship after taunting him for not playing in the games. After Broadsea taunted Odysseus, he joined in the games and beat Broadsea by a lot, inevitably crushing him in the end. In the thought of gender however, this shows that the book does not portray any men as perfect individuals; no person is flawless in every way. Also, just the fact that both Gods and Goddesses exist shows that men aren’t prominent in the culture; the women have just as much say as the men do. The last example is that of any women that commits adultery. In book one the woman has an affair when her husband was in the war, when he returned home the woman’s lover killed the husband. When the son found out that his father had been murdered, he returned home to kill his mother and her lover. This short summary explains the role of the male son; he is setting a ‘good’ example for any other sons or husbands in this situation. Mostly, though, the woman is always to blame. Yet, the woman has the willpower and the power to commit adultery no matter what her husband might think. In conclusion, the first eight books of the Odyssey reveal that the women have just as much power as the men do, it’s just the fact that they are more subtle about it that makes them seem powerless to some people.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to women being portrayed as the weaker sex, women are often portrayed as doing many menial tasks such as weaving or sewing. On the other hand, men are seen as protectors, out to fight wars and provide for their families.
ReplyDeleteOne example of the typical tasks of womanhood and male superiority is when Prince Telemachus tells his mother, Penelope, to
“go back to your quarters, tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders, men will see to that, but most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house.”
This informative excerpt occurs while Telemachus and the suitors are feasting and listening to a bard, until they are interrupted when Penelope commands the bard to tell a different tale. Overall, this passage shows the tasks that women are charged to do in the household, as well as their political standing. Some of the typical tasks carried out by women are working with wool, other cloth, and using those materials to weave. Also, at the end of the quote, Telemachus states that he alone holds power in their house. In this powerful statement, Telemachus declares that he, a mere boy, had more power than the queen of Ithaca. Furthermore, when he, and not the grief stricken Penelope, went out to sea in search of Odysseus, it showed that men alone should carry out the more important tasks, like looking for a national hero.
I am going to take a completely different viewpoint and say that women have great power, but it is a very different kind of power that is not possessed by men. The women in the Odyssey are often convincing male characters using illusion and persuasion. Some of them use it for good; some use their female powers for evil. Athena is, up to this point, the only major character that uses illusion to help. Most of the other women use their power of illusion to trick Odysseus or other men into entering a trap, where the men are kept as love slaves. Women like calypso and Cerce are immensely powerful, but evil. I saw a similar theme in the Ramayana, where women who were immensely powerful were often evil. The odyssey is not as concrete as the rule in the Ramayana, but there are traces of that same theme. I also have noticed a small theme where women appear to be weak and unimportant, but have a hidden power underneath. Helen is the primary example of this theme, and I expect that there are more types of these women later on in the story. Helen is shown briefly in the Odessy, but from what the book tells us, she has some hidden power. Her abilities are revealed when Menelaus is talking to Odysseus about the Trojan War. The section about Helen walking around the horse and calling out to the soldiers in a hypnotic way is a definite form of female persuasion. Later on, she sits by Menelaus and makes herself appear like the second-in-command. I wonder what it would be like to view more of their relationship. My guess is that Helen secretly manipulates Menelaus pretty well.
ReplyDeleteThe power that is assigned to the different characters in this epic differs in a way to past cultures we have studied. In comparison to the cultures we have studied this year so far, women have equal power to the men. In the past books we have read as a class, women play a great role in the story. For instance when Odysseus’s ship was being slammed by the massive swells Poseidon was generating, a mere female mortal living on the bottom of the ocean had the power to save him. Offering her scarf of immortality, she changed his fate, thus an example of the power associated to females in this epic.
ReplyDeleteThe odyssey is very similar to almost all of the other books we have read this year, where men are the dominant sex. I agree with Zac Bartel in that the men are much more dominant then female. Even Telemachus, who starts out acting as more of a child then other men, has dominance over his mom. Chada said this before, but i feel it is an extreme important quote to re-emphasize. Telemachus says, "mother, go back to your quarters. Tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders, men will see to that. but I most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house'" (89). In this quote, a son, telemachus, orders his mother, penelope what to do. In todays society, this would be considered disrespectful because Penelope is an elder and a parent of telemachus. However, simply because Telemachus is a male, he has the power to talk to women however he feels is necessary. Also, not only are men shown as dominant, but some women, such as calyspso, are portrayed as evil. Calypso is a goddess who wants to keep Odysseus, the protagonist, on an island forever, while Odysseus wants to escape and go back to his land and family. However, not all women are portrayed as evil, and some are even portrayed as helpers of men and good people. The princesses in book 6 help restore odysseus, who is nearly dead, to strength by feeding him, giving him water, and even clothing him. A woman who is portrayed as good, and even could be considered the most important person in the odyssey, is athena, the bright-eyed goddess. not only does she get odysseus freed from calypso, but she makes him look better so that the princesses want to help him more. She also is the one who inspired telemachus to go out and find his dad, and help him get home.
ReplyDeleteIn the Odyssey I think that while men may appear to have greater power, the women have different qualities that make them powerful. Penelope, Calypso, and Athena all have the ability to persuade those around them to manipulate and receive their desired outcome. Penelope for example is a trickster, because she was able to put off remarrying one of the suitors for years with her weaving plan. Penelope told the suitors that she was making her shroud and will remarry as soon as she finished. She never did finish however, because every night she would unweave all of her work so that she would take longer and never finish. As a trickster, Penelope’s little power was able to influence the suitor’s actions and delay her marriage. Calypso is seductive, and used her seductiveness to manipulate Odysseus to stay on the island with her, despite his desire to return home after the war. The goddess Athena also has a power of persuasion. She encourages Telemachus to leave his father’s palace to find out what happened to him. Athena was able to use her persuasion to help an unconfident young prince realize he needs to grow up and learn the truth about his father.
ReplyDeleteWomen are not the only ones with the power of persuasion in the epic. Odysseus is also a crafty trickster during the Trojan War. The Trojan horse was Odysseus’s idea to break into the walls of Troy and he also saved the war and by stopping the conniving Helen. When Helen circled the horse, calling out to the men inside and persuading them to come out, it was Odysseus who held them back from falling into her scheme. Odysseus stopped one man when he nearly called out to Helen, saving the Trojan horse idea and the war.
I somewhat agree with what Dani has to say. Even though women do not possess great political or military power in the Odyssey, they have the power to partially control the men to get what they want. Unlike in the Near East culture, even though women are much less powerful than men, they are still respected for the tasks they have to accomplish as women. Both men and women have different roles in the Odyssey. As said in Book 7, on page 183, "Just as Phaecian men excel the world at sailing, driving their swift ships on the open seas, so the women excel at all the arts of weaving". The womens’ mastery skills of weaving come as a tool for power and protection. Take for example, Penelope and her weaving in order to delay marrying one of the suitors. In general, women are meant to take on tasks such as weaving, cooking, cleaning and being what we call “housewives” today. Therefore they don’t have much power or say in the political decisions that the men make. However their duty also varies internally depending on their social class. The Queens, such as Queen Atera don’t have to do all those tasks because they can control the lower class maids that work for the royal people. Thus, the Queens serve as moral support for the Kings. Even though the women do not possess great power, they possess beauty, which is another factor that contributes to their ability to manipulate the men.
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference of power between men and women in the Odyssey, but I agree with Aziza when it is stated that women have a different kind of power. Take the example of the Phaecians and Princess Nausicaa, she has the power and ability to do what she wants. In book V of the Odyssey, she simply asks her father (who is a superior) if she can go take a bath and do the laundry. Although laundry is often considered to be a women's job, Nausicaa does it voluntarily when she goes to take a bath with her maids. While out at the river, Nausicaa and her maids play games and relax, until events unfold that allows them to meet Odysseus. Nausicaa is able to be Odysseus by the doings of a female, the goddess Athena. The ability Athena has to adapt the course of fate shows that immortal women certainly have no lack of power. Continuing with the tale of Nausicaa, she meets Odysseus and after he gets cleaned up, Nausicaa, Odysseus, and the maids trek back to Phaecia. When they arrive Odysseus is enters the captial by the wits of Nausicaa. Once Odysseus settles down in the palace and gets a good meal and some rest, Nausicaa uses her power to convince her father, the King to give Odysseus a ship and a crew. The King complies and at the end of Book V, Odysseus has a ship and is on his way home.
ReplyDeleteOverall, the distribution of power in the Odyssey is weighted towards the men, but the women are not forgotten. There are plenty of instances throughout the Odyssey of women having a significant amount of power and influence, but not in the same areas as men.
In this epic written by Homor, men could be found to be the more dominant gender as seen in other epics, others and I have read. Although women hold some sort of power… they don’t hold as much especially in the public form, “Modesty kept each goddess to her mansion” (8. 367). Although earlier in that page the men are out looking for sex and saying how beautiful Zeus’s daughter, Aphrodite is. From these two examples we can conclude that men have the ability to crack jokes, laugh, and have fun in the public eye, while woman don’t have that chance, they have to stay at home and be the less dominant gender towards males. I believe however, that females hold a dominant side as said by Aziza. And they have the ability to gain respect but have yet to fully hold that respect making them still the less powerful gender in the Epic.
ReplyDeleteThe distribution of power throughout Homer's epic, The Oddessy, is quite different than the distrubution of power in other narratives we have read such as Gilgamesh, The Hebrew Bible, and The Ramayana. This is because the relationship between gender and power is very complex. We further understand this tie by analyzing relationships, conversation, and confrontations between the many characters in The Oddessy. Their are gods, goddesses, nymphs, earthly/mortal men, and earthly/mortal women in this story and the gods, goddesses and nymphs hold authority over all mortals, men and women. Therefore the criteria for attaining power mainly concerns your divinity (mortal-immortal-semi-divine), but once we explore further into interclass relationships involving two mortal beings or two divine beings, the men in each have the power over the females. One particularly interesting interaction in the Oddessy, is between Odysseus (a mortal man) and Circe, the (female) nymph with lovely braids and magical potions and powers. She has all of the power until Oddyseus eats the magical herbs that prevent Circe's potion from having any effects on him, once she realizes this, she instantly drops to her knees begging he show mercy on her and then goes on to invite him into her bed saying that they will 'mix in the magic work of love' and 'breed deep trust' between them... This brings up another question about the relationship between sex and power.
ReplyDeleteThe dividing of power is defiantly shown as men with a high position, and females as below them. In contrast to this however Circe a bewitcher (shown in chapter 10 of the Odyssey) puts a vile poison in the drinks of Odysseus’s men and turns them into pigs. This shows how even though women seem to have a lower role in society they are able to almost in a sense overpower the other gender. Another example of this is the wife of Antiphates the ruler of the giant clan that Odysseus and his men run into. Due to her size and massiveness she overpowers Odysseus’s men and in turn calls upon her husband who immediately kills one of Odysseus’s men. The various female goddesses we have studied throughout the story have held much power in respect. Athena a goddess sees favor in Odysseus, and helps him throughout his journey to get back to his wife Penelope. The fact that this happens shows how females have power in that the Greek people would allow there to be women gods. On a separate note Penelope Odysseus wife seems to have no power in that she cannot get the suitors to leave her house. The only way that they will leave is if mighty Odysseus returns from his prolonged journey. This concept shows how some women in this time period were shown as very dependent on their husbands, and needing their protection and support.
ReplyDeleteIn this epic, as in many epics we have read this year, the stories are about societies which are patriarchal. The men in The Odyssey had the role of being heroes, they went to war and had many journeys and encountered obstacles on their way back home. The women worked hard at home maintaining their daily lives for the men. While Odysseus is away, Penelope’s story is not a heroic one. Her adventures are not epic or the king of stories that are told as legends.
ReplyDeleteIn the first book of The Odyssey, Telemachus has visions about his father Odysseus being alive. He sees his father stranded on the island of Ogygia with goddess Calypso. Calypso only wanted Odysseus to stay with her because she fell in love with him. Women are thought of as people who stay in one place and try to get what ever they can. Men are the action figures that leave home, travel the world and have adventures.
Another example of how women are subordinates is when Telemachus tells his mother to go back to her quarters and do all the work with the other women in there. “...mother, go back to your quarters. Tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders, men will see to that. but I most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house'" (89). Telemachus orders his mother around and tells her what to do because the men are in charge of the women.
It is clear in this ancient Greek classic that women are portrayed inferior to men.
ReplyDeleteA quick background on ancient Greece is essential in understanding the roles of women in society. It was believed that Pandora, the first women to be created brought trouble into the lives of men. When she opened Pandora’s box she released evils and trickery into the world so it was believed. This earned women a label of foolishness, and trouble in Greek society, included the Homeric Age when the book was written. In the odyssey the only positive light on women is Penelope who is forever faithful to Odysseus, her husband. She refuses the temptation of the suitors who want her for her power and wealth.
Other than Penelope, who thus far has only one mentioned to not be consistent with the Greek views of women. Circe from the island of Circe poisons some of Odysseus’ men into pigs. Although Circe is evil Odysseus over powers her when he becomes immune to her drugs. In astonishment she becomes madly in love with him. The next and final description of Circe is of a symbol of sex and nothing more as Odysseus and him men party and live luxurious lives; feasting on fine cuisine, and drinking until heart’s content. This is one of many examples where women are showed as inferior and troublesome.
It is also interesting to note that men do stupid things but a negative stereotype is not caste of them. For example Elpanor gets drunk and falls off a roof breaking his neck. While his crew shakes their head in dismay there is no mention other than stupidity on an individual level that men are dumb or troublesome.
I disagree with what Henry said, that women are inferior to men, but that women have a different type of power than men. In class we talked about how the political world was for men but the weaving world was for women. And through weaving, the women gained a sense of control and authority over men. In the Odyssey, Homer says that men were to be more of the political figures. For example, the crown in the family gets passed down through the generations from father to son, never father to daughter. If the king were to have no sons then the crown of Ithaca would leave their family. Even though there are queens, and wives, they were not in high status politically as the nobles of the city. For example, when Odysseus is in Phaeacia, no women participates in the sports, only the men. The women cook and clean, and take care of the house. Even in Book 1 it says, “mother, go back to your quarters. Tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders, men will see to that, but I most of all: I hold the power in this house.” This quotation is saying that it is the women’s job to weave. This idea is shown when he says to worry about what you have to do and get back to the distaff and loom, which are both used in weaving. From the beginning of the Odyssey one learns that this was a patriarchal society because Telemachus tells his mother that it is the men’s job to enjoin people, and it is not the women’s place in society. He also says that he has the power in the house, showing that even though she was elder, being a male overruled that factor.
ReplyDeleteThe controversy of male verses female dominance is brought up in many wroks of literature. In the Odyssey, the males posses the dominance over women except for the few cases where women do have power. Throughout the epic many gods have lovers that are mortal women, including Zeus, and do not get punihsed or even questioned about it. But when a goddess has a lover that is a male moral it isn't okay; the women get punihsed. For example Calypso "burst into a flight of indignation" (Book 5 pg 156) when Hermes said that she had to let Odysseus go. She questioned why she couldn't keep her mortal lover but Zeus could have as many mortal lovers as her pleased. Eventually she did let him go. There are women in this epic that possess powers over men. Calypso uses her singing abilities to caste spells. She has made HErmes spellbound through her singing. Athena has the power to presuade Zeus to change his mind. That is very important because without her negotiating skills Odysseus would still be on an island with Calypso instead of trying to get home.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, men and women both have a tremendous amount of power in this epic. Both genders have very different types of power. Since the people of this time saw the men as the dominant sex, as in many cases throughout history, the men are given the power in areas of government, military, family, etc. The majority of men in this epic are not naturally powerful, but instead are put into positions of power where they have control of large amounts of land, people, etc.. The women, on the other hand, are not put into positions of power. How ever many of them do have natural power. They have strong personalities and they are able to make things happen. They are able to manipulate people to do what they want. For example, when Calypso has Odysseus on the island she is able to easily keep him there. Odysseus appears to be miserable on the island but never once does he attempt to escape on his own. He simply stays and lets Calypso do what she pleases with him. The men do have substantially more power. They also have power that is more apparent. Women seem to have a different type of power that is not very apparent. This type of power is also good but sometimes not the best.
ReplyDeleteGender plays a big role in the Odyssey based on power. Of Coarse the most powerful god is a male(Zeus) and the second most powerful god is a male(Poseidon). You wouldn’t see a female the most powerful god and in charge of everything. Although most of the men have all the power there is a couple women. Athena seems to have a lot of power by the way she is always looking out for Odysseus and how she gets Telemachus to do what she wants. Of coarse she is Zeus’ favorite daughter and that is where she gets the most advantage but she is smart about how she uses her power.
ReplyDeleteGoddesses:
ReplyDeleteIn the Odyssey, gender and power depends on whether one is a god/goddess or a mortal. In the books we have previously read such as the Ramayana, the women did not have a say or hold any major responsibilities. In the Ramayana, women such as Sita were simple women only serving the purpose of keeping her husband company and supporting him. Similar to the Ramayana, in the odyssey, women used their power of seductiveness to get what they want and they were considered house wives, told to stay at home and live modestly. All women including mortals and goddesses lived a somewhat modest life however the goddesses had more freedom and the mortal women lived quite, silent, and humble lives. What differs the Odyssey from the Ramayana is when talking about gender, women in the Odyssey have a more important and involved role throughout the story.
All women in the Odyssey typically follow the modest lifestyle, except for one goddess, Athena. Athena does whatever she wants, whenever she wants to do it. For example, on her own, Athena voluntarily decides to voyage out to where Telemachus is dwelling in order to tell him that his father is returning, to grow up, and take control of his house. With no instruction of doing so, Athena telling Telemachus, the son of a god-like man to get his act together shows that she does not consider herself to be restricted to a man’s word, keeping her voice to herself, and she makes sure that she has a say in what goes on. Athena took it upon herself to make sure that Telemachus got things in order instead of waiting around for a man to do it. With most goddesses, such as Calypso, men have a higher say and a more important and influencial role in society. Calypso keeps Odysseus in her cave prohibiting him from returning to his homeland. By using her seductiveness, she attempts to keep Odysseus for herself and keep him as a loving husband. Calypso wants Odysseus even if it means taking him by force. As others have previously said, Calypso was holding Odysseus back from fulfilling his destiny in order to forcefully keep Odysseus as Calypso’s husband. However, when Hermes came to Calypso’s cave, he told her that she needed to let Odysseus go. When hearing this news, Calypso made a fuss but eventually gave in and agreed to let Odysseus go. Calypso would not have been able to fight the word of Hermes because he is a god and she is a simple modest goddess. Overall, the goddesses in the Odyssey have more power compared to women in other books although they still do not have nearly as much power as the men.
Mortals:
ReplyDeleteIn the Odyssey, mortal women were not as important as men but sometimes able to have their voice heard. For example, Nausicaa, the pure unwed princess blatantly requested that her father immediately prepare the horse and donkey to take her and her maids to the beach so she could wash her clothes. She did not politely ask, however she demanded her request from her royal king father. Her wish was granted and off she went in a carriage ride down to the beach to relax, wash herself and her clothes, and play games with her maids. This shows that women such as Nausicaa were not afraid to ask for things and they were not shy about telling people what they want. Any other man could have turned down Nausicaa’s request. Even if she had been turned down, she still voiced her opinion. Later on in book 6 of the Odyssey, Odysseus shows up as a washed up stranger on the beach. Nausicaa devises a plan to get Odysseus safely into town and receive ships and shipmen for his voyage. Nausicaa tells Odysseus that in order to avoid the gossip and her reputation destroyed, she could not be seen unwed with a man. She tells Odysseus to wait until she is home, go through the back of the palace, and ask for her mother. Odysseus eventually follows the plan clearly devised by Nausicaa. Since Odysseus obediently followed Nausicaa, a virgin princess’s orders, this clearly shows that women such as Nausicaa had the courage to speak up and have her voice be heard. If Odysseus was not so passive in this instance, he could have shut Nausicaa’s opinions down and taken control himself. Overall, mortal women lived very modest, humble, and quiet lives. They dwelled in their homes and rarely left. Sometimes, women were lucky, like Nausicaa, and were able to voice their opinions without being shut down by men.
Men and women have a very different kind of power. In general, men are the main proprietors, the most prominent characters in the epic. Women, on the other hand, are able to influence the story. They influence it, but they don't drive it forward. Women can either slow the story, like Calypso detaining Odysseus, or they can help it move forward, like Ino, who greatly helps Odysseus get to land when Poseidon is destroying his ship. There are many more male characters than female characters, and the male characters propel the story, but in a way, the women are even more powerful than the men. Women are kind of the people behind the curtains, pulling the strings. While Athena rarely if ever directly approaches an enemy, she convinces Telemachus to act, aand she helps Odysseus on his quest by doing little things like making Nausicaa go to the beach, where she helps Odysseus. The men are certainly more important, but the woman have a large amount of control over the men.
ReplyDeleteBeyond Athena, it appears that women in the Odyssey may posses limited amounts of power, but are easily overrided by the clearly more authoritative male characters.
ReplyDeleteCalypso who appears to be in control, keeping Odysseus captive, is in fact clearly subsidiary. Although she has managed to keep Odysseus on her island for years, it is unclear whether or not he is truly unwilling to be there, and he is easily removed by the order of Hermes. Although Calypso complains, and argues for a bit she eventually recognizes that she really can't do anything against Hermes orders. This shows the male gods clear dominance in the relationship.
Penelope who is portrayed as one of the best of her gender, clever keeping the suitors at bay, and awaiting her husband faithfully, is still not able to control things as well as a male. Her house is being run down by greedy suitors squatting in her home. Their supplies seem to be in danger of running out, until Telemachus steps up as a man and creates order in their household, something apparently Penelope couldn't do.
I believe that in this story women, mortal and immortal, may posses more power then men. Athena, the daughter of Zeus possesses more power then any mortal man in the world. You can argue that Athena only obtained these powers due to the fact that she is a goddess, but she is still very strong. Calypso is also another woman with very strong powers. She is able to keep Odysseus for many years without him escaping. Odysseus is one of the stronger men on the earth, and a woman is able to keep him from escaping. This supports the point that women may have more power then men. However once Hermes comes to Calypso with orders from Zeus, to let Odysseus go, she hesitates for a while but understands she is no match to Zeus' power. This shows that even in the immortal world men may be stronger then women. Penelope, is different then Athena and Calypso, however she still has power of the suitors. After Odysseus leaves for war, and spends over ten years there, many suitors become interested in Penelope. Then Penelope plays a trick on the suitors. She has them come to her room, while she is knitting, and tells them that once she is done with this piece. This occurs with plenty of the suitors, but the trick is that Penelope would unravel her piece every night to make it seem like she got no work done. This trick goes on for three years until one of Penelope's assistants tells the suitors what is going on. This shows that women also may have dominance over men.
ReplyDeleteAs shown in Gilgamesh and the Hebrew Bible, women have an inferior role to men. The Odyssey shows a similar pattern, as men seem to be associated with strength and power. Odysseus is coming home from the ten year long Trojan War while Penelope stays at home. Women do not lack the respect that did not have in the previous stories we read, they just take on role of less "powerful" traits. An example of this is shown through Odysseus and Penelope’s relationship. Odysseus is portrayed as the powerful soldier who is returning to his true love while Penelope is the wife who stays at home waiting for her lover to return. The respect for women is in the epic is there, yet they are shown as people with less physical power as men do.
ReplyDeleteThe distribution of gender and power of the Odyssey is similar to what many modern cultures see today. Working class America, for example, sees a man who goes off to a physical labor job while the wife stays at home and takes after the house or works a job of less labor.
In conclusion, when compared to books that we have read from earlier cultures, the Odyssey describes a culture where men have more physical power than women, yet women have all the respect that they had lacked in previous stories. This subtle patriarchal society is what many modern cultures follow today. Home uses the characters of the Odyssey to describe the gender and power distribution of Ancient Greece.
In the Odyssesy women are portrayed as the weaker sex. Females are also held to different standards then makes. An example is when the gods demand that Calypso, release Odysseus. While most of the gods probably have multiple lovers, he and the gods wont allow the same to be true for Calypso and Odysseus. Calypso recounts times when goddesses take mortal make lovers and then were reprimanded by the gods and sometimes the lovers were even killed. There is something like this that occurs in the Ramayana. This same thing occurs between Sita and Rama. After reading multiple books it is clear that in ancient civilizations, women had much less power then men, and women were chastised by the gods for having multiple lovers.
ReplyDeleteI would like to say the gender seems to be a very small role in this book because both males and females have a great amount of power. For example there are both female and male god and both have great amounts of power. An example of a female god is calypso that holds back Odysseus from being with his family and being king. There are also very powerful male gods such as Zeus and he is the king of the gods. And he gives birth to Athena who is the goddess of war and she has a lot of power. There are also many other female goddesses and there are also many male gods. Another example of a female is Circes and she is able to turn part of Odysseus’s crew into pigs and she also holds Odysseus back for an entire year. She also knows how to get past the whirlpool and the six-headed monster. Another example of a female who is very tricky and is able to hold off the suitors is Penelope and she has a lot of power and is able to wait for Odysseus for twenty years and that takes a great amount of patients. I would say that males and females are very equal in this epic and that every one is very powerful in there own way.
ReplyDeleteAs in most other pieces of literature we have read throughout our Humanities courses, men seem to have the higher role when it comes to gender. The difference in the Odyssey is that gender is not common, it is not mentioned clearly or very often. As others stated, there are both male and female gods and goddesses and they both have high amounts of power. This proves that gender is not a key role but in some cases, more often than not, male figures in the Odyssey tend to be more dominant like in a lot of other things read in this class. For example, Calypso, a female goddess does have a fair amount of power, but as do other male gods like Zeus. Proof of some male figures being more dominant is the god Zeus because he basically has all power. When Poseidon wants to do something, Poseidon must go to Zeus beforehand. Even though Zeus will most likely allow Poseidon to do whatever it is he wishes, he still must run it past him which clearly shows how much power Zeus really does have. In this epic, in my personal opinion, I think that men are somewhat more dominant though both male and female figures have equal power in some cases.
ReplyDeleteThough women often have significant power in the Odyssey, men have greater authority and power. Telemachus can order around his mother, Penelope, freely. This can be seen on page 355,"Bathe now, put on some fresh clothes, go up to your own room with your serving women, pray, and promise the gods a generous sacrifice to bring success, if Zeus will ever grant us the hour of our revenge" (17.48-52). Penelope does as Telemachus commands.
ReplyDeleteAnother example is Calypso. Though Calypso kept Odysseus trapped on Ogygia, after a few words from Hermes she released him with gifts.
Zeus, the king of the gods, is also male.
Many of the comments that have been posted so far state that either woman are dominant or that the power is shared equally. I disagree with both views, though they are well argued. I believe that, like most of the classics we have read, the women are degraded, but in the Odyssey this is covered up. Although the women have major roles throughout the book, can we really look at those roles as powerful ones? For instance, in the beginning Calypso holds Odysseus. Book 1 lines 16-18 states, "Calypso, the bewitching nymph, the lustrous goddess, held him back deep in her arching caverns, craving him for a husband." (78). Today, in the 20th century, guys and girls would look at this as being no more then dispirit, which is a very stereotypical image of unwed women. This is NOT a sign of power, but weakness. Another thing that portrays the female characters as powerless are the epithets used with their description, things such as "lustrous goddess", "sparkling eyed Athena", and "Icarius's daughter Penelope, wary and reserved". These descriptions do not show us any sign of power and it is like this so far throughout the book. Even the men in the book talk down on the women in a negative way. For example in book 11 lines 490-492 Agamemnon talks about his wife and all women stating, “Bathes in shame not only herself but the whole breed of womankind, even the honest ones to come, forever down the years!” (263). What does this statement really say about women, is power part of this statement? As for the men in The Odyssey they are not portrayed as weak and only described with sexual statements about their looks. The men are portrayed as powerful, strong and overseers of the women. In book 1 lines 410-414 Telemachus gives the reader the perfect example of how the male characters dominant the female ones. He tells his mother, “So, mother, go back to your quarters. Tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders men will see to that, but I most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house.” (89). Obeying these orders Penelope goes off, telling us that the males have the power. For Telemachus to be able to speak to his mother that way also shows that females were degraded.
ReplyDeleteIn the Odyssey, gender plays an essential role in the amount of power each character exemplifies. Males are the dominant figures who represent power and strength. Although males are more prominent throughout the story, the scare amount of women makes a large impact in the epic. Athena is a vital character who contributes to the outcome of the story. Her influence helps Odysseus safely return home and plan revenge against the nasty suitors. Without this female goddess, the Greek tale would have developed a vastly different conclusion. Another important female character is Odysseus's wife, Penelope. Penelope represents loyalty and wisdom. For twenty years she waits for her husband, Odysseus, to return home. Not once does Penelope sleep with a suitor or marry another man. In addition, Penelope is often considered to be "wise" and "thoughtful" which is proved through her clever actions and words. Although the number of women is limited, they are significant to the story and manipulate the outcome.
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