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Eurycleia Washes Odysseus' Feet
In your judgment, who is the BIGGEST obstacle to Odysseus' journey home?
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2009
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February
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- Odysseus as leader
- Where are you from? your country? your parents?
- How much of the story is real?
- There are similes... but then there are EPIC simil...
- Through A Glass Darkly: Or Why Odysseus is Me
- Play that funky music...
- Identity (or, Who Was That Masked Wo/man?)
- The Guest-Host Relationship
- What are we missing?
- Is This the Face that Launched A Thousand Ships?
- Whose Fault Is It Anyway?
- Gender and power
- Growing up
- Epithets
- Narrative and storytelling
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February
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Odysseus Blinding Polyphemus
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Followers
Telemachus and Penelope
Stories in the Odyssey are used as parallels to the actual story in order to give a different view and opinion for the reader to better understand the circumstances. One of the first side stories we are introduced to is the story of Orestes and Aegisthus. I believe that the purpose of including this story in the epic is to give us a foreshadow to future actions by Odysseus. Whether Odysseus' actions are a direct reoccurence of Aegisthus or Orestes or simply his punishment is the same, I believe that we will see a relation between the story of Orestes and Aegisthus and the actions of Odysseus
ReplyDeletei believe that the narratives are just a background to the setting, and a continuous background to the ever growing list of characters. all these little narratives give us more info on the characters. though they are continuously a background to what is really happening. like in book IV when Menelaus is telling a story of troy. he is just adding to a background, and the thing is that the narratives also can temporarily cause changes in scenery. the story will go from troy, to a dining room, to a island, to a porch, etc. the narratives are just a side story to the bigger picture
ReplyDeleteThe stories in the Odyssey seem not only to be background and parallels, but also little hints into what Homer is planning to do next with the character, or how he thinks the character should be reacting. With the story of Orestes, not only was it a parallel to the situation, it was the main stories next advancement in the plot. Also, Orestes is used to serve as an example as to what the correct actions in that kind of a situation would be for the values of that time in Ancient Greece. I believe these stories are just another tool Homer uses to give people and insight into his world, and everyday life and different settings and such where these things can occur. As for Penelope and Odysseus’ relation to the side story, I doubt they will follow the same path. The story is there to serve and example of what could, but won’t happen to them.
ReplyDeleteAs for the stories as background, the Odyssey is after the Trojan war, therefore the stories little by little inform us what we do not already know about the war that is important to the epic. The side stories hold minor but key details to understanding the hardship and the journey of Odysseus. They explain the way Odysseus wants to be seen, and his values and opinions about things such as honorable verses dishonorable way to die among others.
As all background, parallels, and the glimpse into the past we need to understand the epic, all of Homer’s side stories are uniquely needed for their own reasons. They complete the epic.
After finishing Book VIII of the Odyssey and reading the entire story of Hephaestus, the smith god, and his wife Aphrodite's affair with Ares, I see now that most backstories and narratives are meant to give the reader insight to what Homer expects the character to do or not to do. The story in Book VIII is about Aphrodite having an affair with Ares, but the another god sees them and tells Hephaestus about it. In anger, Hephaestus builds a chain and then waits until Aphrodite and Ares get together and then binds them up and brings all the gods over to ridicule Aphrodite and Ares. Eventually, Hephaestus is convinced to let them go. This side story seems quite unnecessary until you realize an almost exact parallel to Odysseus' exact predicament. Poseidon is royally ticked off at Odysseus for blinding Polyphemus, just like Hephaestus was extremely angry at his wife and Ares. But the gods are able to convince Hephaestus that holding a grudge is pointless and ruining the lives of another is unacceptable. Similarly, Zeus and the other gods need to talk to Poseidon and convince him to stop ruining the life of Odysseus for such a small crime.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I have to disagree strongly with Ben when he claims that backstories are used for scene changing or background setting. Although these stories appear to do exactly that at face value, if one reads deeply into the stories they find blatant parallels to the plot of the Odyssey, and through those parallels instruct the reader about Greek values, or how characters should react, and possibly a foreshadow to events much later in the epic.
I agree with what Ben has previously said, but no one has considered the fact that the question states "How well reliable are Odysseus's stories?” Throughout the Odyssey and what I have learned about the Iliad, Odysseus's is a keen fighter with wits that get him out of multiple predicaments. The book uses many words to get this point across. Passages such as "Should he fling his arms around her knees, the young beauty, plead for help, or stand back, plead with a WINNING WORD..."(pg.173), "I have never laid eyes on anyone like you, neither man nor woman..."(173),"[Odysseus]You seem no fool to me"(176)and much more. These passages look at Odysseus's stories and everything he does and says as just a way to get out of his situations. The stories may have enough truth for the story not to become a lie, but how much truth cannot be determined.
ReplyDeleteAs for the stories in general I believe that the stories in the Odyssey allow the reader to get an insight of what's been going on for the past 10 years after the war because, we must remember and take in consideration that the Odyssey begins at the end of 10-15 years after the war in Troy.
The role of storytelling is that the stories tell what happened before or it gives us details of the Odyssey. For example, we start out in the story at the end of Odysseus’ journey back home. The stories he tells are about his adventure back in Troy and when he left Troy, such as the encounter with Polyphemus. Odysseus’ stories may not be totally true, but his word is the only word since none of his crew lived. Odysseus may not be telling the full true because he seems to know exactly what to say in order to get help. For example, Odysseus was trying to get help from Alcinous and Aretes. Aretes asked him “‘Stranger,/ I’ll be the first to question you-myself./ Who are you? Where are you from?/ Who gave you the clothes you’re wearing now?/ Didn’t you say you reached us roving on the see?’” (Fagles 187). This was because he was wearing clothes that were very nice. Odysseus answered, “‘There is an island… where the daughter of Atlas, Calypso, has her home,/… and no one, god or mortal, dares approach her there,” (Fagles 187). This shows how Odysseus may have stretched the truth. Hermes went the island where Calypso was without refusing. He just went. He probably stretched the truth because Alcinous and Aretes would feel more sympathy for them. Odysseus’ stories may not be very reliable, but he is the only one who lived in his adventure, so there is no one to confirm his stories.
ReplyDeleteIn this epic, Odysseus is famous for his story telling. In book nine which we recently read for homework, Odysseus is telling Alcinous about his journey so far and how he got to be where he is. the role of this particular story in this book is very important because it tell us how some of Odysseus' crew was killed, where he has been and allows us to think about how he has changed as a man in the ten years he has been traveling after fighting in the Trojan war. these stories also help us see what Odysseus is like as a man. in the first part of the long story, Odysseus decribes how he and his crew went to Cicone to raid the houses, however they were not aware and stayed too long, causing them to get caught. As the great teller of tales continues his story with him and his crew moving on to the lotus-eaters. Odysseus' crew becomes very content eating the Lotus and he has to capture them to take them back to their vessel. when the group moves on to the cyclops' cave, they are looking for hospitality which is demonstrated repeatedly in this epic. however the cyclops sees little people to eat, and when he asks Odysseus who he is he replies with, "nobody. i am nobody." a very smart move so that the cyclops will not know who it was that stopped by and he will not want to consume them. however, as they are leaving after blinding the Cyclops, Odysseus makes the mistake of yelling back to the monster saying something along the lines of: when you are asked who it was that blinded you, you can say Odysseus, i am the great one that blinded you. all of these parts of Odysseus' great story proves that he is a great and brave man, however he often makes mistakes or acts foolishly. the stories in this epic told by Odysseus play a big role in filling the reader in with details they did not know, which helps them understand the characters and plot better. More specifically these small tales help us to understand exactly what kind of man Odysseus is.
ReplyDeleteThe reliability of Odysseus stories are unsure. Odysseus has been trying for years just to get back home to his family he left. Wouldn't a person do anything they could in order to get back to those they loved? Granted in just about any situation where a person was away from their family for seven years a person would tell a story that was full of lies. Also, we learn from the Greek society that people all want power and to be honored for what they do. Then again, we know some of his stories are true. Like when he killed the Cyclopes and he told him his name was nobody. He used his manipulative ways to convince the Cyclops but he also left giving away giving his true identity. This also shows he has the power of an enabler and to have anyone believe what he wants. He did this because he wanted the recognition and praise. We know this story is true because he is being punished for it and not being able to get back to his family. Odysseus may be making up the stories because he wants the recognition. I wouldn't count on Odysseus stories as being completely reliable but I believe that behind every story there is truth.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the Odyssey, Odysseus tells many stories of his triumphs, defeats, captivities, and journeys. He is often portrayed as crafty and clever. The stories he tells all seem to get the reader to the most recent point in the story. For example, when he's telling Alcinous his whole journey's story and how he ended up there with them. Odysseus's stories reveal his self-centeredness and want to portray himself as the hero and conqueror. I believe that when telling his stories he may manipulate them to make himself seem more superior, and as stated in the initial question, "clever", "crafty", and "the man of twists and turns". Because we do not know the actual truth from the lies, there is no way to know how reliable Odysseus's stories are; but the way that he portrays himself in them, suggests bias which may ultimately suggest that the stories are also biased and not as accurate as we would hope. The role of the stories in the Odyssey is to fill in the missing pieces. They give extra insight to the characters and background information, like ben said, but they also show different points of view like Wes said. I believe that the role of his stories is not only that, but to build himself up into almost the scenario of it "not being his fault", for example when they get trapped in Polyphemus' cave, and Odysseus cries out "Blame Zeus", Or when he talks about how Calypso "made" him stay, or how it was his crew's fault that he ended up not getting home. Odysseus however, always manages to leave out the part where it's his own fault. Never in his stories, does he say, "I craved recognition and had to shout my name to Polyphemus, aggrivating Poseidon into never letting me reach home". He sets up an image for himself to show off his victories and prizes. He tells these stories often, I believe, to embellish himself and make him seem more grand.
ReplyDeleteIn agreement with close to everyone who has commented I do not view Odysseus' stories as reliable. I find it very interesting that it Odysseus is very quick to constantly remind the reader that he was in control of his men; he was the leader of the expedition, but as soon as things start to go wrong Odysseus is suddenly not to blame he has either be "asleep" Book X; the story of the bag of wind, or absent and therefor not able to control his men. If Odysseus was such a good leader as he makes out to be, would it not be expected that more of his men would have made it through the journey.
ReplyDeleteUp to book X11 it is very apparent that Athena takes a strong hold of Odysseus' life; we only see this when Odysseus is not telling the stories.
However, it is a very hard topic to prove as we have nothing to compare it to and like I stated earlier; Odysseus is the only surviver.
Zach Voigt made this point in class. Odysseus does not tell his stories 100% true, but that is because he is trying to persuade his audience. Most of Odysseus’s story telling happens in the land of the Phaeacians where Odysseus goes back and tells his story from the beginning, when he left Troy. Odysseus is indeed the man of twists and turns, he is a great tactician, he is clever and he is cunning. In other words, he knows what he is doing most of the time. And if he messes up, he is always quick to solve his mistake. When Odysseus tells his story to the Phaeacians, he is trying to persuade them to pity him. And if they do, they might give Odysseus gifts for all the hardships he has gone through and pain he has endured. And so, in Odysseus’s mind, if he has many gifts to return home with, surely he will look good.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus knows how to tell a good story, he knows people. That is why Athena left him as soon as she guided him to the Phaeacian palace. A lot of the adventures seem to have just been thrown in there like the lotus eaters. I think Odysseus is telling generally a true storyline but more exaggerated.
Odysseus is not a reliable storyteller at all. He has been trying for years to return home to Ithaca and to his family. We learn from Greek history that people all want power and to be honored for their services. Although he is not reliable completely he tells the truth at times. Like when he killed the Cyclopes and he told him his name was nobody. He used his manipulative ways to convince the Cyclops but he also left giving away giving his true identity. This also shows he has the power of an enabler and to have anyone believe what he wants. He did this because he wanted the recognition and praise. We know this story is true because he is being punished for it and not being able to get back to his family. Odysseus may be making up the stories because he wants the recognition. I wouldn't count on Odysseus stories as being completely reliable but I believe that behind every story there is truth. So this means that even though he is not a completely reliable story teller, there is always some amount of truth behind what he says but it is often stretched in order to make him look “bigger” than he actually is.
ReplyDeleteNo I do not consider to be a reliable storyteller because he has gone back on his word before and he is known as a trickster so how do we know what he is telling is true. ODysseus is probably not accurate. For all we know he's telling the story in his favor to make himself look better. The motivation behind doing this is getting to be known for more things than he already is. The story he is telling could have key points that people will remember about him after he is gone which is what he wants. His name to live on.No one is there to contradict what ODysseus is saying becuase his crew died. Odysseus is probably not lying about the whoels troy but probably fabricating the story to blame it on the crew to make himself look better because he's obsessed with death and glory.
ReplyDelete