Monday, February 16, 2009

What are we missing?

Some sections of Humanities are skipping over the parts of the epic that focus on Telemachus and only reading the parts focusing on Odysseus. What might they be missing? How do the Telemachus sections complement the Odysseus sections?
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9 comments:

  1. Zach VoigtFebruary 19, 2009 at 10:08 AM

    The Telemachus sections of the story are just as important as the Odysseus portions because they are almost a direct opposite of Odysseus' stories. They are much more humble and aren't told as stories, only events that happened in reality. The truth of Odysseus' tales are often in question, while Telemachus' journey is accepted without further questioning. Also, Telemachus shows some similarities to his father in his actions. He is often recognized as the son of Odysseus and several people have commented on his godly heritage. He tells stories either truthfully or more cleverly than his father as well.
    Odysseus’ stories are fun to read, but Telemachus’ story is more dramatic. He is on a quest to recover the father he never knew. He meets some of his father’s war buddies who tell him stories from the Iliad. We skip those because they are from the Iliad and not the Odyssey. Also, they don’t always carry the themes that we have emphasized in Odysseus’ story arch.
    Telemachus’ story arch is also not very interesting. Keeping readers engaged is half of the battle in literature, so keeping students reading might require skipping sections such as the Telemachus Journey. Telemachus goes to meet with his father’s war friends, who are all getting on in years, and anyone who has ever sat through a lecture or a long story from a grandparent or friend of a grandparent will know that it can be extensive and excessively detailed. For this reason we may skip some of Telemachus’ exploits.

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  2. Claire CohenFebruary 19, 2009 at 10:19 AM

    The Humanities classes that are skipping the sections of The Odyssey that focus on Telemachus are missing out on an important part of the epic. I feel as though the sections about Telemachus are essential, and if they want to comprehend the main themes of the epic, they must read the Telemachiad. For those classes who did not read the books on Telemachus, they are missing one of the main themes, the theme of becoming an adult and maturing. Early in the epic, when Athena first meets Telemachus, she tells him that he as been passive too long and that he must begin to mature and become an adult. One of the reasons why he may not have mature prior to Athena’s encouragement is because he grew up without a father, and traditionally a father helps a child go from a boy to an adult. After Athena tells this to Telemachus, he immediately takes a step towards becoming an adult. Soon after Athena gives this advice to Telemachus, he calls an assembly. This assembly was the first assembly since Odysseus left for the war. This proves that Telemachus was trying to follow the footsteps of his father and one day he hoped to be the king of Ithaca. Telemachus continues to mature throughout his journey to learn of his father’s fate. Telemachus’s story of maturity and becoming an adult compliments Odysseus’s story because Telemachus is in fact maturing for Odysseus.

    The other theme that the classes who skipped the Telemachiad are missing out on is the importance of the guest-host relationship. Although, the classes may have spoken about this relationship they are missing the story of Telemachus and the Suitors. Since Odysseus has not yet returned from the Trojan War, the suitors assume he is dead and therefore they try to get Penelope’s heart and eventually marry her, so that they are the king of Ithaca. The suitors are one of the few examples, so far, of bad guests. They take over the palace and when they are asked to leave, they stay. Although, the suitors are bad guests, Telemachus, like his father, is a good host and he tries to make the suitors happy. This compliments the story of Odysseus because it proves that even though Odysseus has not been a part of Telemachus’s life they have similar values such as honoring the guest-host relationship. I feel as though the humanities classes which did not read the stories of Telemachus are missing out on some key themes which they could have better understood by reading the Telemachiad.

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  3. tommy v willenFebruary 20, 2009 at 6:03 PM

    The classes that do not read those section on Telemachus miss the idea that the father and son pair have many similarities and their lives somewhat have many of the same lessons. Some may argue that their lives are completely opposites and they share no similarities but it can also be looked at the other way around. Although Telemachus is still in the stage of his life where he is becoming a man, he shares an important quality with his father, leadership. Odysseus bravely leads his crew into danger and protects them with whatever it takes. Telemachus sits back and is somewhat of a pushover while still a boy. He allows the suitors to come into his house and stay there and party. With the arrival of Athena, he begins to transform into a man and kicks all the suitors out and takes charge. These actions show signs of him becoming much like his father, Odysseus. While missing the sections in the book about Telemachus, the classes miss out on the rest of the story of the maturing of Telemachus. As Zach said, these sections may hold the same importance as the sections we have actually read, our classes are focusing more on Odysseus and his travels. In the missing sections that we did not read, it probably displays more similarities between Odysseus and Telemachus. Some other characteristics that Telemachus will probably possess are bravery, loyalty, and trustworthiness. Odysseus remained loyal to his wife and never left her after all these years. Telemachus will follow in the footsteps of his father.

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  4. SunjeevFebruary 22, 2009 at 2:25 PM

    Like one of the above posts stated, Odysseus’s part of the story is mainly story-telling. And Odysseus is not too much of a reliable source at that. But the Telemachus sections are mainly important because in the beginning of the book they give a lot of background information. Now personally, I feel like Odysseus is in fact the main character of the book but the Telemachus sections give a lot of background about Odysseus.
    Now, as of what we have read so far, I don’t feel like Telemachus has played too large of a role in the development of things considering most of what we’ve read is about Odysseus going on grand adventures and sailing the seven seas. But I do think that the Telemachus section will play a huge part in the journey back to Ithaca. When Odysseus and Telemachus meet, that will be important; it will show the son/father relationship between the two. I can’t be certain what will happen when the two meet.
    Books 1,2,3, and 4 all had to do with Telemachus. Our class skipped over one or two of those books. However, like I stated before, on the grand scheme of things, Telemachus doesn’t seem to have too big of a role. And now that I have repeated myself a lot, I am done.

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  5. Robert FearonFebruary 22, 2009 at 3:02 PM

    Personally, I am shocked that any class would skip the sections with Telemachus. The first four books set the mood for the Odyssey. The story of a young man searching desperately for his lost father in order to save his kingdom is a pretty important theme of the Odyssey. Also, the first part of the Odyssey has a large amount of foreshadowing that adds a level of excitement and suspense to the plot. The most important instance of foreshadowing in my opinion is the relationship between Telemachus and the suitors. The section implies that the suitors eventually meet a bad end, but will it be too late to keep control of Ithica by the time Odysseus returns? Also, will Telemachus have to fight the suitors, and will he win? As Athena said to him, “Once you have sealed those matters, seen them through, think hard, reach down deep in your heart and soul for a way to kill these suitors in your house” (86). The Telemachiad has other necessary portions of the text that explain parts of the plot not seen in the rest of the story. It gives a good overview of Telemachus’s personality, as well as providing some background story about Troy for those who have not read the Illiad. It is helpful to understand the comrades that Odysseus was with later on when he is in the Underworld. Otherwise, the names are just that, and not the great warriors that fought to recapture Helen. The only argument for not reading the Telemachiad that I can think of is that starting the story half-way through is confusing for some people. Starting with Odysseus would reduce the confusion, but would make the story less rich.

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  6. WillStarxFebruary 22, 2009 at 3:30 PM

    As we continue to progress through the story, we have not heard from Telemachus really at all. In books 9-12 Odysseus is continually telling stories of his long and sad journey and it seems that his son is one of the last things on his mind. However, though we have not heard from Telemachus lately, I feel that we may have been missing some key things. In ms. Griffin's class we have not read about Telemachus since the suitors were about to attack him and Penelope was worried sick. The result of this scene I feel will turn out to be a big part of the story becasue it will affect the atmosphere upon Odysseus's return home.
    Also, both Odysseus's part in the story and Telemachus's part are vital. Both characters provide a background of the previous book and reveal key details about the war, and in the end the stories of both characters will make out the ending of the story. Something is occuring on Telemachus's side of the story that will determine how the story ends because it is clear that Odysseus will eventually return home, but what awiats him when he returns is the real question. In other words, eventually we will hear again from Telemachus and he and Odysseus will reunite in the end and the stories of both characters will play out and become clear.

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  7. Ben AustinFebruary 24, 2009 at 5:47 AM

    i agree with will we only really know telemachus as a side character and not as a main part. we miss so many of his little adventures. books 9-12 are all odysseus telling his story. telemechus is not noticed as a main role. since we skip over all telemachus's little side trips to his fathers old war buddys. though his side tripps only really glorify odysseus, and his story. he is only continually making more and more updates on odysseus's exploits. so i see why the humanities teachers are having us skipp them. it would just get more and more boring for us. and it would give us less and less incentive to read the book. the exploits of odysseus are shown enough through books 9-12 all it is is him talking about what he did. but also is that the truth was he lying to make himself seem as more of a hero so the phaeacians would get him home. so we could be missing the corroboration of odysseus's story, at troy. his whole story could be a lie, though his exploits at troy must be true since we remember menelaus's recollection at troy. though no one but odysseus can tell the story of his journey back home because his crew and subbordinates are all dead.

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  8. Peter Montjoy TrimbleFebruary 25, 2009 at 7:03 AM

    hello

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  9. Gavin H BuckFebruary 25, 2009 at 5:14 PM

    For the classes skipping over the Telemachiad (Books 1-4), I think they are missing an essential part of the great Greek epic. Two main reasons that the first four books are so significant are the theme of maturation and the use of foreshadowing to supply possible outcomes to Odysseus’ return.

    One major theme in the Odyssey is the theme of growing up and maturation. The first four books explain Telemachus and his adventures searching for his long lost, beloved father. Through these adventures, he becomes a mature gentleman, avid speaker, and stands up to his fears. When Athena first confronts him, he is a milquetoast, easily pushed around, always adhering to the desires of others. However, all of this changes in the course of a few weeks. This is first exhibited when he stands up to his mother, Penelope, when she tells the bard to stop telling the story of great Odysseus. Also, in the same timeframe, he stands up to the suitors that trouble his mother and destroy his house. In book two, when his character is still developing, he stands up to the brazen suitors after they tell him to, “Come, eat and drink with us, just like the old days.” However Telemachus responds, very forcefully, “Antinous, how could I dine with you in peace and take my pleasure? You ruffians carousing here!...You have ravaged it all, my very best, these many years, while I was still a boy. But now I am full grown and can hear the truth from others.” This strongly worded response shows that Telemachus has already grown a great deal since the beginning of the Telemachiad, but nearly completes the maturation process when he stands up for his house and family. In a similar way, Odysseus matures on his arduous journey home; he learns numerous things from Athena, including diplomatic skills that he employed when talking to Alcinous.

    Another important element of the Telemachiad is the use of foreshadowing to hint at what Odysseus’ return may bring for the suitors, as well as what he could receive from the suitors. One example of foreshadowing is the mention of the untimely death of Menelaus as Telemachus tours the world in search of news of his father. The story tells of how Agamemnon returned from Troy, only to be tricked by his un-loyal wife and lover. After his wife and lover killed him in his own house, Orestes, his son, killed both his mother and her lover to avenge his father. This is very similar to Odysseus’ situation; he has a vulnerable wife, suitors who plague her, and a devoted son, who would travel the world to find him. While the story of Agamemnon is mentioned various times in later books, without the Telemachiad, one would not be able to comprehend its true meaning.

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